Julia Gillard's New Carbon Tax

01/01/01 12:00 AM Report Abuse

Ann 25/02/11 05:19 PM Report Abuse

With the amount of emissions that China creates every day, anything Australia does in miniscule in terms of actually affecting global warming. This tax will hurt small businesses, which are already struggling just to survive.

james 25/02/11 05:30 PM Report Abuse

Please, please fight this. Tony the majority of Australians are behind you 100% the last thing my family needs is another big tax or levy. Typical Labor-useless!!!!

Jean 25/02/11 07:48 PM Report Abuse

We have to stop this government - how much more do they think they can take from us - I am sick of working just to pay bills. I am on my own, nearly 60, working my hardest to get to a point where I can retire - won't be able to pay my house off unless I work until I'm 75 - and this government is wasting money everywhere we turn. STOP IT! Get some sense back into it and LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE... No Carbon Tax, no National Broadband, no more handouts to countries that don't need it, start looking after US.

Ben 25/02/11 11:07 PM Report Abuse

Tony,

Fight this, fight this under this government is gone. I merely did't like labor before yesterday, now I detest them with a passion.
The Coalition must topple this illegitimate government as soon as possible, along with thier Greens cohorts, "Independent" scum wadd buddies and that corrupt, useless Shorten in-law who calls herself GG.
Destroy them Tony, make them all sorry that they even for a second thought the words Carbon Tax.

Mark W Allen 26/02/11 10:25 AM Report Abuse

" There will be no carbon tax under the Government I lead " !

Really, how has our Prime Minister broken this promise ?

It's the GREENS that are leading the Australian Government and Juliar Gillard by the ring through her very long and growing nose !

Fiona 26/02/11 10:27 AM Report Abuse

Facebook groups are already rallying. There is a march planned for Canberrra (details to be posted here - http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=204343259579493) and there is a march being planned for Victoria, details available here http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_193420767345443

If you think there is NO MANDATE for a carbon tax, hit the streets to make yourself heard.

Mark W Allen 26/02/11 10:31 AM Report Abuse

" There will be no carbon tax under the Government I lead ".

Really, how has our Prime Minister broken this promise ?

It's the GREENS that are leading the Austrlian Government and JuLIAR Gillard by the ring through her very long and growing nose !

Will 26/02/11 12:39 PM Report Abuse

This is just awful. Please Mr. Abbott and Co. fight this with EVEVYTHING you got. Julia will pay for this betrayal.

Chay 26/02/11 01:15 PM Report Abuse

I'm borderline struggling to pay for rent, bills, food. Now we have to pay more for people who chose to live in flooded QLD, and now a tax on what I *breathe out*??
Honestly, this is going to break us. Forget about super contributions and retirement, I cannot even afford to buy my own home. This is too much. I fear I will soon be needing tax payer's assistance (i.e. you reading this) to just survive with all these taxes.

Simon Lee 26/02/11 01:49 PM Report Abuse

Carbon tax over my decomposing body.
More sensible direct action to improve the nation but no
ludicrous taxes and no more self serving bullshit.

john 26/02/11 01:57 PM Report Abuse

Socialist liar. Does she think we Australians can change nature by taxing us? The answer is simple. No. Labor needs the money to continue to balance the books.
We are going to pay for her waste. Revolutions of the people against government are gaining strength around the world. I don't believe it will ever happen in Australia but the government wshould take notice.

John of Werribee 26/02/11 01:59 PM Report Abuse

Hysterical allegation from the Liberals. Wake up Swan you just lied to all Australians. Have you memory failure?

Lyn 26/02/11 02:45 PM Report Abuse

Let's hope and pray that Labor is absolutely slaughtered in the state election and the federal Labor power brokers decide Ju-LIAR Gillard is too much of a liability to risk letting her stay on.

The Australian people need to get angry--very angry and STAY angry.

John of Werribee 26/02/11 03:19 PM Report Abuse

Get Up fight this for Labor now, or are you just another Labor driver for JuLIAR.

ollie 26/02/11 05:22 PM Report Abuse

Thank you Julia. We need this.

roger 26/02/11 07:58 PM Report Abuse

The carbon tax is well worth fighting against.

But, why do the Liberals have the keep in their ranks the biggest fan of this tax in Australia: Malcolm Turnbull?!

It is like waging a war against Stalin and having a general who is openly (and loudly) a Communist?

Get rid of Malcolm Turnbull!
Get rid of the carbon tax!
Get rid of Labor!

Mary Graham 26/02/11 08:13 PM Report Abuse

No to the carbon tax. As a small business owner we will be asked once again to pay for people who will not be able to aford this. The small business cash cow is slowly drying up thanks to both sides of government allowing the two majors to take over. It's time to get rid of this government and any future government that doesn't do the right thing by the Australian people. If the middle east can fo it so can we, lets get a social media site up and running to get rid of this lot.

custard 26/02/11 08:45 PM Report Abuse

Tony,

The coalition must fight this on the pretext that it does nothing to alter the climate due to the inaction in China, India and the USA.

Why pay a tax that does absolutely nothing in terms of reducing the global situation?

Why introduce a tax in Australia that the rest of world has decided so far not to introduce themselves?

It just leaves us disadvantaged compared to the rest of the world and is a handbrake on the economy for sure.

Fighting this tax as just a lie from Gillard will wear thin pretty quick so make sure you dont stuff it up.

Keep up the fight.

Lynette 26/02/11 09:07 PM Report Abuse

Dear Tony -

Please please fight this TAX to the death! I have read your alternativies to fighting climate change and they make perfect sense - not enough air time is given to explain these new initiatives to ordinary folk. In conjunction with fighting Gillard on this carbon tax you MUST get your alternate plan out there. This government is crippling us. As self funded retirees we took great pride in financing or own retirement, we pay our own private health insurance, and try everything in our power to lessen the burden on young taxpaying families. At the rate we are going we will end up being a burden if this government manages to stay in power. They are taking a wrecking ball to everything we cherish - small business, farmers, working families, the elderly. Don't give up on their so called border protection either - we must put an end to the people smuggling trade once and for all, and only allow those from UN refugee camps to enter this country. If we don't, there will be many more lives lost at sea.

Lynette 26/02/11 09:14 PM Report Abuse

Absolute GOLD!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLLUcP7IwiE

Julie 26/02/11 10:10 PM Report Abuse

Labor claims to want to help working families cope with the cost of living and now they want to introduce a new tax that will drive up cost of living and interest rates. Oh and no mandate, I am very dissapointed and I hope the coalition will be doing everything they can to stop it.

Cled Richardson 27/02/11 08:54 AM Report Abuse

Hello, I have never done this before, but I feel I have to do something. I own a small manufacturing business in the western suburbs of Melbourne. Because I could not find any skilled people, I was forced to take a loan and buy CNC machines to run my business. Now I am going to taxed for turning on my machines and running my business. My business power bills have already doubled in five years. I have not been able to double the price of the good I sell. The only winner in this, is the dock workers, because they have just got a lot more overtime, now it has just become even cheaper to import a similar product from China to the one I am trying to manufacture in Australia. The fact is this will put business costs up and give house holds less money to spend. It makes you think is it all worth it. The other thing that makes me mad is that the labor party said this tax will encourage house holds to turn to green power, was it not her party that stopped the solar power grants.

Tony, you have to stop this for the sake of small business and all the people it. If their is anything i can do to help, please email me back.

Sam 27/02/11 11:40 AM Report Abuse

She has no shame! will do anything to hang on to power

Jane Kelly 27/02/11 03:08 PM Report Abuse

What about the pollution that comes out of the mouths of politicians. I am staggered byt the way both Juliar Gillard and Penny Wong (on Lateline) twisted the facts that are clearly documented. When they know in advance that they will be questioned on a particular matter, they should be able to make their answers plausible. Not only were Penny Wong and Juliar not honest, they were not even slightly plausible. I can't understand how such peoplle can rise to a position of power with such little ability to openly discuss important issues. Can we have a politicians' broken promises tax, tax on pollies telling lies and evading clear and reasonable questions ( a bit like a swearing jar). We should soon have enough not to need either the flood relief or the carbon tax.

Emily 27/02/11 03:32 PM Report Abuse

Who is leading this country? The only party that took this to the election was The Green's! This was not taken to the election by either major party because they heard the Australian people say 'we do not want this', loud and clear. We cannot just stand by and watch the Labor/ Green coalition ruin this country's economy.

gk 27/02/11 04:15 PM Report Abuse

the one question that never seems to be asked "on what science" are they basing the introduction of a CO2 tax after the climategate emails climate science has been under scrutiny for manipulation and deletion of temperature data ipcc and cru being the most noted

thetrureal 27/02/11 04:49 PM Report Abuse

John Howard said many times “ I/we the federal Liberal party of Australia will not introduce a GST, I/we will never eliminate the import tax/tariffs and allow jobs to go offshore, I /we will never introduce levy’s. Strange how everyone forgets!

The Liberal worshiping squad are hypocrites “hard core hypocrites” Howard in his first term as PM said no GST, then for the second election term he said to the voting sheep “with a GST you will pay less tax and have more money in your take home pay and everything else will be cheaper such as fuel” so he lied lied lied! If Abbott could win the election with a carbon tax he would have done it also!

if the ALP won without the having to rely on the Greens and IND, then a carbon tax would not be in consideration “and this carbon tax will be so minor that it will not have that much of an effect unless they do the fuel which most likely they won’t as the Greens are now happy that this unreasonable tax is happening” now if it was a Liberal and Greens coalition, something very simular would have happened!

In theory and that is the key word “theory” a carbon tax could force energy generators and providers to use non polluting sources to generate energy, but in reality the extra tax will just be passed on to us with no impact on pollution! What is needed is full funding and research into fusion generating unlimited energy sources but with that in operation some of the ruling classes will lose the monopoly on energy control and might have to work for their money instead of stealing it from us.

Time to get off the dependence on oil and we need research and development in fusion power!

Mr. Kennedy 27/02/11 05:05 PM Report Abuse

Thank you thetrureal, there are voices of reason still.

Jane Kelly 27/02/11 05:37 PM Report Abuse

Thetrureal, You say that if not for the greens juliar would not have introduced the carbon tax. Sorry but you can't possibly know that.
Secondly just because, as you say other politicians have not kept their word, does that make it ok? In your defence of Juliar, you seem to be almost implying that it does. I think there may be hypocricy on both sides. All I ask in this particular instance is Julia, please be straight with you answer. Say you changed your mind, but cut the BS. But I would ask no less of of any other politician or party. That no doubt makes me naive. But it could work.

thetrureal 27/02/11 05:48 PM Report Abuse

Mr. Kennedy: thanks for your support.

Jane Kelly: I am not defending anyone, I am just stating that people are screaming out that Gillard lied, but when Howard done it, it seemed ok and the sheep still voted for him because he was a great liar and he could persuade people.

If a politicians was to come out on national TV and tell you how it is, many people will commit suicide and those who have not will fall into depression because people want to hear the lies, people look up to politicians as religious deities!

People just walk around with a blind fold and if they take off that blind fold they won’t like that they see so they will just put it back on and believe in the lies!

roger 27/02/11 06:46 PM Report Abuse

Thretrureal:
If Julia Gillard would have declared once (or, for that matter, a hundred times) that she would NEVER introduce a carbon tax, but then change her mind and, coming into the last election campaign, announce: "There WILL be a carbon tax under a government I lead", and then get elected, she WOULD have had a mandate for a carbon tax.
It is all about what a candidate says DURING THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN. Prior to the election campaign - a candidate is entitled to change his/her mind (just like the rest of us - they are just human!). - Once, or even a hundred times.
John Howard DID have a mandate for a GST because DURING THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN he said that he will introduce a GST. Julia Gillard did NOT have a mandate because DURING THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN said she will NOT introduce a carbon tax.

And, as for alternative energy sources: that is fine, but these things do not happen overnight or within a couple of years. It takes years and years of research for them to mature to reliable energy sources. What will you do in the meantime!?

Lyn 27/02/11 07:12 PM Report Abuse

According to Professor James Lovelock it won't matter what we do, we have probably left it too late. For us to have any chance of survival we MUST embrace nuclear power NOW!


http://www.ecolo.org/media/articles/articles.in.english/love-indep-24-05-04.htm

Con 27/02/11 08:12 PM Report Abuse

I'm 17 and not a great supporter of both parties. However, if there were to be an election held in the short term and I being eligible to vote, my vote would easily go to the Coalition and therefore Tony Abbott to be Prime Minister. I am worried about my future deeply, and do not want to have unfordable basic essentials.

However it is a shame my vote would not have a great impact, as I live in a fairly safe Labor seat (Issacs, VIC)

Jane 28/02/11 12:41 AM Report Abuse

Look around and see if people REALLY care about their planet. In many small ways is each person doing their share? Many people smoke, throw their cigarette butts and litter into the street. I've seen many people throwing cigarette butts into beautiful tropical waters. When I am driving in the city I see that about 90% of the cars on the freeway have only one person, the driver in them. Why aren't they car pooling. Do we even deserve this planet? It reminds me of an incident that happened a little while ago; a young woman was otside our local shopping centre with a tin for collecting donations. She was saying "Help the environment". I didn't have any money so instead of donating I stopped and picked up the litter that she didn't notice laying at her feet. So, I wanted if it's our money that is need or more responsible behaviour or both?

M. Northwood 28/02/11 11:34 AM Report Abuse

All Liberal supporters need to fight the introduction of Labours ( no the Greens) carbon tax.When China,India,USA and the rest of the world introduce a price on carbon Australia should follow.

Brad 28/02/11 12:20 PM Report Abuse

Joolya Foolya call an election NOW!

Matt 28/02/11 01:03 PM Report Abuse

Tony, if you were to allow exports of uranium to India this would make bigger redutions to C02 emmissions than Julia's carbon tax! I just want the government to keep its hands out of my wallet, things are difficult enough...

L Costin 28/02/11 01:44 PM Report Abuse

Can we PLEASE have an election now?

Our PM does not have a mandate to introduce such a destructive tax!

Luke 28/02/11 02:53 PM Report Abuse

JOHN HOWARD: Now I did say in 1995 that we'd never ever have a GST after we were elected in 1996 we changed our mind on that...

Sandy 28/02/11 09:21 PM Report Abuse

Tony, please fight the Carbon Tax with all you have. These Labor\Green lunatics do not have a mandate and are hell bent on destroying our country. What can be done to dissolve the government and force an immediate election?

austaviator 28/02/11 10:24 PM Report Abuse

As a retired Science teacher with tertiary qualifications in Science I strongly believe that CO2 is NOT the cause of climate change. CO2 is a very minor gas in the atmosphere and only absorbs energy at very specific wavelengths. Man made CO2 is not the cause of climate change.

We are about to wreck our economy and put thousands out of work base3d on a false hypothesis! Dumb politicians in the Greens and Labor.

Taneasha 28/02/11 10:51 PM Report Abuse

Thetrureal - obviously you were not listening. John Howard made it VERY clear in his campaign BEFORE the election, that he WOULD introduce a GST. Everyone went to the Polling Booths knowing this and still voted him in. Also - little Johny didn't have any trouble in stopping the boats.

Theo 28/02/11 10:57 PM Report Abuse

Can someone out there please explain how this carbon tax is going to reduce pollution???

Big businesses will be forced to go off shore - leaving hundreds of people without jobs. Those businesses which do not take their business off shore - will just pass the carbon tax onto we the consumers without doing anything to reduce carbon pollution.

Paul 01/03/11 09:20 AM Report Abuse

If labor introduce this new tax I'll be a shot duck finacially. Food is ever increasing for no apparent reason as wages are not increasing. Utilities are outstriping what I earn and can pay. I do everyhting to reduce my bills, then the utlities don't make money out of me if I do not consume, so they increase their charges. Is there anyway the Liberals can force an election on this issue or block money to finance Labors policies, such as the NBN. Something has to be done to get Labor out and the Greens especially, they are dangerous to our economy and our country.

Tristen 01/03/11 10:49 AM Report Abuse

I dislike Julia Gillard i think she is very fake, but ey try finding a real politician with real feelings. One thing that has really started to get to me is that these political parties do not speak " common English" if you want the majority of people to understand what you are saying it needs to be done in the way of using language that every person can understand, the average Joe is not going to comprehend nor understand what is being said and the use of big words needs to change to be more practical for every person and every culture to understand.

Carbon tax is stupidity at work, people and technology evolve that's how things have gone since.... um Creation, and at the moment we can see we are already starting to change our technology to be more environmentally friendly, look at the hybrid cars coming out, this is only a small thing but it is something.

This tax, just like the Smoking/Alcohol Tax is just another means of theft the government is putting their hands into our pockets and taking more. Think of it this way if you couldn't buy smokes most people wouldn't smoke? yes some would find other means to get them but the majority would quit, but what does the government do? TAX like 80%. Instead of moving the Drinking age up to 21 what does the government do? TAX more on alcohol. So now instead of slowly bringing bans in on technologies that cause bad emissions what do they do? they want to make us pay for power, fuel, water etc. with some more TAX on it.

David Gray 01/03/11 11:29 AM Report Abuse

Mr Abbott you are priceless and classless. You and your former leader did more back flips than a circus acrobat. Not to mention the lies you told about People over board and the GST. I could mention AWB but your in denial.

Heath 01/03/11 12:47 PM Report Abuse

David Gray - could you please explain how the Liberals lied about the GST???

John Howard made it very clear - he went to the Polls with a mandate - THERE WILL BE A GST. People voted him in clearly knowing this.

As for the "people over board" - if you put this topic to the people at the moment - Liberals would "romp it in".

My sister-in-law is a Bosnian "genuine refugee". She had to wait her turn to be sponsored to come into Australia. Her father, in a concentration camp, then had to be sponsored by her with a guaranteed place to live and had to go through the CORRECT channels.

She gets very angry with the "queue jumpers" who pay there way and then revolt when they are turned away.

Geoff 01/03/11 01:31 PM Report Abuse

Tony Abbott and Greg Hunt,

Please explain your policy on the environment so that even children can understand. Update your policy from 2009 and remove the term "Great Big New Tax on Everything" as it is now outmoded and smacks of sloganism.

Get over the he said/she said mentality as both sides are equally guilty, and the new paradigm is in force now.

Just explain the policy. No crap, just simple explanations.

Rico 01/03/11 01:36 PM Report Abuse

Please I once was a labour supporter, but never again. Libs all the way. Please fight this tooth and nail. I cant stand Labours economic vandalism.

Rob 01/03/11 03:02 PM Report Abuse

phew! I thought I was the only person who was against this tax.
I dont see how this tax will take us into the future.
If anything we need more power generation capabilities and cheaper power to increase our production capabilities and compete on the world stage.
The people in support of this tax, should go back to living in caves and leave
the rest of us alone.

David Gray 01/03/11 03:24 PM Report Abuse

Heath # you must have been asleep here is an extract from Wikipedia (John Howard had said that the "GST would never become part of Liberal Party policy", however the change of heart would become apparent in the lead-up to the 1998 campaign. It was passed by the Senate in June 1998 in a heavily amended form) = When I reached into my pocket I found Little johnny's fingers there. Heath that is just past history what I am concerned with is this Abbott says climate change is ****. Now we can get differing experts give their findings on climate change. Which one is right True or False but what if it is right who speaks or advocate's for my or your great grand children not Abbott. When they ask why didn't they do something about it. should no one look out for your great grand children now. Australian troops have been magnificent in Iraq and Afghanistan the problem is Johnny supported a Lunatic in George W now the debate will really liven up because a lot of those boat people are here as a result of the USA bombing the crap out of them. We have just seen in Queensland having to be relocated as a result of the floods. We have no problem with this however the fact is this was a natural Disaster. The Iraqi disaster is predicated by a lunatic George Bush. Rest assured if climate change isn't arrested soon we will have far more boat people here.

Rawhide 01/03/11 04:28 PM Report Abuse

Anyone who values and loves the Australia we live in must fight this tax. This is not like the GST which has benefited Australia: this will send industy off shore and send unemployment skyrocketing.

Labor needs an alterative income source: it would not DARE increase GST so it has created a moral panic - "climate change" which the gullible believe, thus justifying an increase in tax.

The contempt with which this govement treats the people is appalling. We really must do something.

TrueBell 01/03/11 06:05 PM Report Abuse

Thank you someone in Australian politics has the guts to do this. Tony abbot does not believe in climate change. He is prepared to sit back and let the multinationals and leave this country barren.

Oh by the way your "big fat new tax" is sounding like a broken record.

Heath 01/03/11 06:21 PM Report Abuse

David Gray - dont't DARE ask me what I am to tell my grandchildren. Our son - our granchild's father is proudly currently serving in Afghanistan - and accurately tells his son why it has to be.

As for your Wikapedia explanation of John Howard – history yes – fact no. Unlike Julia Gillard – John Howard listened to the people – he did make amendments to his original policy to reconcile the then third major political party (Democrats) and was open and transparent before going to the Polls. Voters had 4 MONTHS between June and October 1998, to make an informed decision which they obviously did at the Polling Booths.

As for the current influx of boat people – true asylum seekers and refugees would go anywhere to preserve their families – not just make a beeline straight for Australian shores, where we make it too easy for them. Bush is just a scapegoat in Australia’s situation.

On the matter of climate change – the Queensland floods of of the early 1900s saw 61 people dead – worst than our recent floods and the worst ever floods of the late 1800s. The San Francisco earthquake of 1906 was the worst natural disaster in modern history – 100s killed – 200,000 displaced. You call it global warming. I call it cyclical – and that is what I tell my grandchildren.

Gazza 01/03/11 06:31 PM Report Abuse

Well, what % of C02 do you think is in the air? 0.038% Fact. Of that, 0.001% is contributed by humans (all of us - not each), the rest is natural.
So can they seriously tax us for a miniscule 0.001% of carbon? Thats 1 molecule per 90,000 molecules of air.
Don't you just love those media images of smoke stacks, which actually emit steam (yes steam), the smaller skinny stacks with only a haze comeing out is the actual C02. Guess it doesn't look impressive enough.... Like someone else has already said, they don't understand the science, they just want money for it.
Figures quoted from "C02 levels in the air" by Gregg D. Thompson's media survey document dated 29/12/2010

Greg 01/03/11 08:09 PM Report Abuse

Explain this one to me. Power stations are either owned by Govt or one or two big companies. Nuclear power is not an option because of the retarded greenies and sun and wind, lets face it, are a complete joke. So now you tax the companies that quite literally have no choice but to burn coal. They won't try and burn less carbon. What for. There are no alternatives and all they have to do is put their pricing up. You and I will use the same electricity. net effect:

On the climate: Zero (not that I care, it's crock anyway)
On the Electricty Company: zero. They will put up prices to cover the tax.
On you and me: Higher electricity costs
On the Govt: Billions in tax revenue.

It's basic accounting.

Tony Abbott is right he just doesn't explain it very well. The point is proven to any thinking person. But take it one step further. If we stopped all our carbon emmissions tomorrow it would not make the slightest difference whatsoever to the world. Is the Gillard Government proposing we build a 6 Million square km glass bubble over Australia. THIS IS A TAX NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS.

Little Johhny 01/03/11 08:25 PM Report Abuse

I agree with virtually every comment posted. I would like to say this. Climate change is nonsense and I wish Tony Abbott would just come out and say. It has no logic or scientific foundation. The IPCC have been proven at best to be incompetent and at worst downright fraudulent. I never thought I would see the day in Australia when I feel like an alien in my own country. It's like they have all gone mad! How did these lunatics get into power! Too much Tv and iphones. The popoluation is being dumbed down. You would have to be to vote Green or Labor. Food for thought: We have been on this planet for a few thousand years. the planet has been around for Billions of years. In time terms a drop in the Ocean. The world has heated up and cooled down and had more co2 and less co2 for millions of years. On this basis how on earth DARE we make conclusions about what the climate is doing. Even if it is changing. So what! How do you measure a change in Ocean temperature and how do you compare to say a reading taken 80 years ago with highly inaccurate mercury thermometer.... Simple answer. You can't.

Theo 01/03/11 09:08 PM Report Abuse

BRAVO Little Johnny - the vast majority of people's opinion is like yours.

ANNA B 01/03/11 09:36 PM Report Abuse

I and my family and friends do not want A CARBON TAX. please go back to an election so we can vote on it. TONY ABBOTT please speak up we are on your side about this. We also don't want N B N. For god's sake listen to the population.

Gina 01/03/11 10:46 PM Report Abuse

Mr Abbott
Please, please, please call this tax what is it - a Carbon DIOXIDE tax. Not Carbon - that black sooty stuff. I have lost track of the number of people I have spoken to who believe that is what the tax is refering to. Please bring this up in the House of Reps and have EVERY Coalition MP use the words Carbon Dioxide Tax when refering to it- and then ask Ms Gillard, Mr Swan et al what price is going to be put on the drivel coming out of their mouths??? After all, every time we speak or breath we emit Carbon Dioxide!!! They would be amongst the highest polluters wouldn't they?!!

Ray 01/03/11 11:18 PM Report Abuse

fight this carbon tax with all you have got this must not get through every one I talk to is against it.. Climate change is not our fault

L Costin 02/03/11 01:41 AM Report Abuse

Tony Abbott must put forward his alternative plan in a step by step format so that the average sheeple can understand.

Go for the jugular on their policies and don't fall into the trap of personality bashing. This government would have to be the worst in 40 years. I don't think Australia can afford to hang on to much longer under this incompetent bunch - we need an election now because labor does not have a mandate for this crazy tax.

Yamba 02/03/11 09:13 AM Report Abuse

Talking about a mandate to take action on carbon, when I add approx. 50% of conservative votes to the majority of other members of pariament I get a whopping mandate!
John

kennb 02/03/11 11:46 AM Report Abuse

JOHN HOWARD: There's no way that GST will ever be part of our policy.

REPORTER 1: Never ever?

JOHN HOWARD: Never ever. It's dead. It was killed by the voters in the last election.

David Gray 02/03/11 12:00 PM Report Abuse

Heath i did preface my comment of the magnificent work the Australian army are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan My young brother has also served overseas So I know how proud of your son you are.

When it comes to the right to say what you tell your grand son. obviously you can tell him that you supported the Party that tried to stop carbon pollution which is your right. I will tell mine that I wanted it stopped because I want you to breath the same fresh air I did as a youngster not the polluted crap that is likely to be around in a 100 years from now. We have no idea what the future holds. It is my duty as a parent and grandparent to ensure we leave this place in a better position than it is now.

People here seem to think that Abbott speaks for them "wake up" he speaks for Big business the mining company's The energy company's not you. These company's wreck every place they go too because they are about PROFIT no matter what the social or environmental cost.

On the boat people issue the fact is more people fly in to Australia then come by boat they arrive with genuine passports then ask for asylum. They also come in by stealth do you want to stop them or are they alright mate.

What about NZers? thousands come here every year and what if 30000 Cantabrians decide they've had enough of the quake in Chch and come here will you be at the airport welcoming them here?( Haere Mai Bro) at least we might win the super 15

tom M 02/03/11 01:53 PM Report Abuse

Actually this tax seems quite fair to me. Maybe I am the only on here that thinks so, but plenty of people I know also seem to agree (and no they are not all green and labor voters)

This out and out opposition to the tax (which will go through no matter what) is a massive wasted opportunity. It would be great to see the Liberals making sure that Labor doesn't magically exempt their mates from paying whilst the rest of us do. If you work with them and keep the pressure up the tax will be fair. If you don't you will do the rest of us a disservice.

kelly 02/03/11 03:11 PM Report Abuse

I am disgusted by the politics of the Liberal party in this debate.

I am not here or there with either party but didnt the Liberal party take this to an election in 2007? wasnt it party policy untill Mr. Abbott gained leadership?

As a swinging voter i must say i find it hard to stomach these politics (ie stopping question time early every day, nasty political comments such as likening our prime minister to the Libyan leader) and see it as a clear and cynical attempt to gain government.

I hope this changes in order to have a choice at the next election as Im not sure i could handle an opposition to become a government as negative as the Liberal Party at the moment. (Maybe Malcolm Turnbull should have another shot!)

mat 02/03/11 03:30 PM Report Abuse

Reading some of the posts on this site has made me think twice about ever voting Liberal.

The comments on here degrading people that dont vote how you want them too is only adding to the negativity of your party which is ultimately going to hurt them when the electorate have a good think about who they want in government.

This nasty, cynical and malicious oppositon to everything is Mr Abbotts ticket out of ever being prime minister. Maybe he would have more credibility if he didnt oppose EVERYTHING the government is trying to do for his own political gain in this debate.

The fact that some independents have stopped meeting with him is testament to this fact that the independents ARE NOT rushing to give their support to Abbott.

If you want this party in power, start by being positive, giving credit to good policy and come up with some credible policy within this party. This is not about carbon. The Liberals have held this policy themselves.

Haydos 02/03/11 03:57 PM Report Abuse

This puppet show, with Brown pulling the strings of Gil-Lard and Swine, will cost us all !!!

Jimmy Goners 02/03/11 04:18 PM Report Abuse

PENNY WONG IS WONG. Lol Sorry, I couldn't resist. Hey Mat I don't need a bunch of Pollies to make me angry. You have to be a complete moron not to be seriously pissed off by this idiotic carbon tax. To suggest Tony is stirring it up is ludicorus and insulting. I don't think he's doing anywhere near enough stirring! Do the math. Nothing will change except one thing. The Government has more tax revenue.

Terence Cardwell 02/03/11 04:46 PM Report Abuse

The Gillard/ Brown Government begins the destruction
of our economy..
When Bob Brown the leader of the so called ‘green’ movement stood alongside Julia Gillard on the steps of Paliament House announcing to the media the introduction of the Carbon Credit Tax, it was amazing how he made her mouth move without putting his hand up her back and operating her it like the usual dummy.
Previously I said that she had sold her soul to the devil when she got in bed with Bob Brown and his communist associates. Now that is proving to be very true. She is in his trap and cannot escape.
The proof is the fact that she lied when she said there would be no Carbon tax ( for something that is non existent i.e. manmade global warming.) and then without the slightest hesistation announced there will be a carbon tax whilst saying she never lied. But she will buy off the people that voted for them by giving them a concession whilst destroying our industry and economy.
The statement it will only cause an increase of 5% is an absolute lie. Everything uses electricity and everyone of those products or services will increase substantially from the ‘flowon’ effect.
The Electricity power Generation Industry is an absolute essential part of our country and has been the main player in making Australia what it is today. Without it the country would be dead. Nothing . No water, no power, no computers, very little food. Industry and commerce would grind to a complete halt. And these idealistic fools want to close it down whilst trying to introduce so called renewable energy in the form of wind and solar power generation, which as a main power source has proven to be a repeatedly total failure all over the world. Yet these fools still insist on ‘going forward’ with their crazy schemes.
The suggestion that this carbon tax will create 31000 jobs is ludicrous, espescially when you consider the amount of people who will be made redundant because industry cannot afford them.
The insulation programme was a failure. The clean coal plant were a failure. The Underground CO2 storage was failure. The ridiculous light bulb fiasco was a failure. Solar panels on roofs are a failure as far as the main grid system is concerned. Everything this Government touches is a disaster.
It would be wonderful to have solar power on the roof, water tanks out the back.and be independent.This is possible on an individual house basis but does nothing for the main power generation system.
The excess from these panels would equate, literally, to less than a small teaspoon in a 200 litre drum and are an irritation to those operating the power generation system.

Julia Gillard wants to introduce a carbon tax for one reason- to claw back the money her and her cronies have wasted on their crazy schemes. Bob Brown wants it because he knows it will destroy our economy.
It has nothing to do with carbon dioxide, an inert harmless gas, which consist only .38% or 380 parts per million in our armosphere. To do the impossible and reduce our emmissions by 20% would make a difference of .00000016%. Yet Gillard and her cronies, controlled by Brown, still try to use the excuse of a ‘carbon tax’.

Julia Gillard and the labor party got back into government by lies and deceit and should be made accountable by calling another election without the interference of the useless ‘independents’ who caused this problem in the first place. Ironically if they had to face re election they would be thrown out on their ears.
The only one with any sense of honesty was Bob Katter.
Julia Gillard should also be charged with fraud and deception and answer a court of law. They are NOT are majority elected government and should NOT be there to destroy this great country.
Be warned if Brown and Gillard continue down this path they will destroy our economy and our way of life.
It is now up to you, the reader, to stop them or pay a very heavy penalty in the future.

Terence .L. Cardwell.

mat 02/03/11 05:14 PM Report Abuse

Jimmy Gonners,

Come on have a good look at your chosen political party. All well and good to call me a moron but the Liberals held this policy not all that long ago, back when they were still coming up with credible policies and providing an alternative under Turnbull. So are you calling them morons too? Are you still calling Turnbull a moron? or the 'almighty' John Howard? No i dont think so.

In short, you can call me a moron for believing in climate change and knowing that Abbotts plan, unlike Turnbull will cost heaps and deliver little, or you can accept that the government IS going to help cover the household cost (something overlooked on this site) and do something about climate change.

Maybe then consideration can be given to voting for an overall negative and un-helpful party such as the Liberals as they are at the moment.

Mat 02/03/11 05:27 PM Report Abuse

Oh and i almost forgot, Jimmy you say that the government cashes in on the tax without listening to what they have actually said. Every dollar goes back into households and business to adapt to it.

The figures you have been told by Abbott so now blindly believe have been made up. There is no substantive figures or prices to date and untill this is discussed and determinded everything you are blindly following has been made up.

I would gladly consider voting for a party that had legitimate concerns over this issue but this is to gain government, not to protect you or me.

You dont think Mirabella linking the Australian Prime Minister to Gadaffi in Libya is not stirring the situation? And if you really do believe that comparison go and live in Libya for a while and get back to me afetwards.

anna 02/03/11 07:45 PM Report Abuse

Mat wake up your in a dream

L Costin 02/03/11 08:28 PM Report Abuse

Mat - Howard went to the electorate seeking a MANDATE for his GST, he argued his case and won - Giiliard had no such mandate. She should at the very least go to an election to seek the mandate necessary to bring in such a Tax. We know why the faceless men of the ALP ditched Rudd.

1. They knew he was on the nose with the electorate
2. They knew the electorate was also cold on a Carbon Tax.

They ditched Rudd, bought in Gilliard, and ditched the Carbon tax like a hot potato

Gilliard then went to an election and told the Australian people this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLLUcP7IwiE&feature=fvsr

Now you know why the vast majority of Australian feel betrayed.

Can you understand that?????

Kevin Cramer 02/03/11 08:32 PM Report Abuse

The sun rules the climate not humans

L Costin 02/03/11 08:37 PM Report Abuse

And Matt...what we have for a government is a cobbled partnership of Green fanatics and three people who call themselves 'independents'. Oakeshott who can't decide who he wants to represent, Windsor who has an unhealthy hatred for the coalition, and Wilkie , a self promoting media tart who believes in his own self importance. The constituents of these people are polishing their baseball bats....



It's in the interests of labor to cut the rope from these people and go to the Polls for a clear and concise mandate. Bill Shorten is starting to come to this view.

Theo 02/03/11 08:48 PM Report Abuse

David Gray - Big businesses put in the big bucks, take big gambles, do the hard yard and employ thousands of people like you, me and our grandchildren. Big businesses deserve the rewards that it brings – why else would they do it.

Try it yourself sometime.

Thank God for the few remaining big businesses we have – it won’t be long before they all go off shore and then you can explain to your grandchildren why they cannot get employment. I am now retired and after three generations at the same big business – I have it on good authority that it too will soon be going off shore because of this Government.

Also - Passports or no passports - plane or boat - makes no difference – they are all “queue jumpers” – turn them all away and make them come through the proper channels.

Anson 02/03/11 09:56 PM Report Abuse

To make climate change, its not about the money, its about the way that we are going to change. I don't think just because the Carbon Tax, the climate will be changed...Labor need to think the way to avoid climate change, not count on TAX...

Mr Gecko 02/03/11 10:23 PM Report Abuse

Gillard is the Teflon Lady. She sticks to nothing. She didn't stick with Kevin Rudd, she didn't stick with the citizens assembly, she didn't stick with cash for clunkers and the now she won't stick to any promises made before the last election.

Ian 02/03/11 11:40 PM Report Abuse

Scrap the GST that was never ever going to be introduced.

L Costin 02/03/11 11:56 PM Report Abuse

Ian


Howard went to the elections to win a mandate for his GST, he argued his case and won government. For Gilliard to have any credibility she needs to do the same - take her Carbon Tax to the people and let them decide if they want to give her that mandate....


Can we have elections now, please??????

Philip 03/03/11 12:11 AM Report Abuse

Get the team behind you Tony and fight hard, this one (the tax and the lie) is worth the fight.

Greg 03/03/11 12:42 AM Report Abuse

OMG! I am sooo shocked! I can’t believe it! What is this world coming to? Fancy that, a political party which has been elected to Government has reneged on an election promise. I am just dumbfounded! Why o why o why has this been allowed to happen? In 110 or so years of Australian Federation, why has it ONLY JUST started happening? Get real Abbott! How short a memory you have, particularly of the Howard years for which you participated as a Cabinet member.

Yr 10 Commerce Class 03/03/11 09:34 AM Report Abuse

Julie Gillard is a two-faced puppet dangling on the Bob Brown's strings. She is misleading and is like a military dictator and is off her rocker.
Tony Abbot for Prime Minister !!!

Another Greg 03/03/11 09:36 AM Report Abuse

Julie Gillard is a lawyer. (OMG a Labour Lawyer!) Tony Abbott is not. Decision made as far as I'm concerned!

David Gray 03/03/11 11:14 AM Report Abuse

Theo
they do it for PROFIT just like the Corporatocracy control governments with financial support. These governments change laws to allow this to happen. This is what Wall street was able to do. They ruthlessly exploited and predicated on poor countries and rich alike. Look at the USA, Greece Ireland etc. Thats another issue

Back to the point When a mining company aren't allowed to develop a certain site for what ever reason it may be native title problems what ever a law is changed to facilitate the company's needs.

Yes there are huge benefits for the government with the revenue and jobs that are generated by these company's thats why governments are beholding to them. Some "not all" of these company's have terrible environmental records around the world. An Australian company has had its problems in this regard but I digress again.

What we need to understand is no company is going to walk away from the rich pickings in Australia particularly after spending billions already and generating billions in profits, In other words they aren't going to take their bat and ball then have to spend Billions & Billions in another untapped country to find something they already have their hooks into here. They will exploit this place until its all gone.

Mat 03/03/11 12:15 PM Report Abuse

Well done Greg, you make a point that seems too often overlooked. We are talking about a party led by a person who has stated in matter of fact that unless he is reading of a statement he is normally lying to make a point.

This site seems to make a meal of the fact that a politition told an un-truth or is not allowed to change her mind.

Well well lets have a good look at Abbotts and the former government performance in the field of truth telling. You cant all of a sudden have a concience when you have been lying your whole political career.

I actually hope Abbott gets a go soon because he is wrecking this country by opportunist politics and we will see how well he goes after it is clear his climate change policy wont work and he will actually have to come up with policies to keep this country going instead of 3 word slogans and opportunist opposing of EVERYTHING!!! Fair is fair start coming up with credible policies INSTEAD of trying to steal government.

They have certainly made the independants that are rubbished on this site feel better about themselves because they chose the side that is atleast trying instead of using opportunism. How else can you regard flagrant opposition to a policy once so loved by your former political hero's. What Johnny must be thinking I wonder.

Mere Male 03/03/11 11:24 PM Report Abuse

It's no coincidence this new tax will begin being collected in the financial year Swan's political goal of a budget surplus occurs. I'll bet next weeks pay, which is a substantial amount, Labor has forecast a budget gap for 2012/13 with the stagnation of the mining profits super tax, and is using the carbon tax precursor to an ETS (their stated final goal) as a thinly veiled way of raising badly needed funds. It is NOT anything to do with reducing carbon emissions! Yes, the money raised may be paid out as compensation, but it will be done in way so it's not included as an out-going expense on the 2012/13 balance sheet. So, Swan will be able to go to the next election with a false budget surplus, banging on about responsible fiscal management and achieving goals. This carbon tax is a crock. If an ETS is Labor's preferred strategy, then implement it straight away, or call an election.

Trueblue 04/03/11 01:03 PM Report Abuse

It would be nice Mr Abbott if you as Leader backed up Mr Morrison and Mr Bernardi instead of making them apologise for truly caring about Australia's security!

Dave 04/03/11 03:06 PM Report Abuse

Oh poor wee thing.

You act like the characters in Anne of green FABLES. ( I know its Gables )

You start the bullying and then get the snotty nose kid with pigtails to get her kicks in. Now wait the smelly kid with warts and braces joins in like all schoolyard bullies.

And when you think Anne’s had enough she gets up and gives you a blood nose. What does our schoolyard bully do? Well ah ah, you ah, well

You ask Mr speaker to come to your rescue.

And you are the alternative Prime Minister

God help us.

Bob 04/03/11 05:58 PM Report Abuse

Tony, I totally support you in defeating any carbon tax. This is really just another GST in disguise, only it will apply to everything, it won't be readily disclosed on products and services like the GST is, so the amount of the Carbon Tax we pay won't be transparent.

Its just another cash cow for the Government and will actually hurt the environment by taking away money from people who could otherwise put it towards environmentally friendly applications like solar energy etc.

The cost of electricity should be locked into a fixed rate for a set period of time so it remains affordable by those on low incomes. It's an inherent responsibility of any Government to ensure basic services at an affordable price and the Carbon Tax will do the opposite.

pamela 04/03/11 06:38 PM Report Abuse

Hi Tony, please get out there and fight this carbon tax for the people of australia, their jobs
and livelihoods. We already have the flood tax hoisted upon us mining tax and now this
breathing TAX, dont breathe, dont go past go dont live. This woman and swan are both lyers
do you remember garretts word's before the election "tell them what they want to hear and
when we get in we will do what we want" I will never forget those words. he was gagged after that comment and put back in his box.
Gillard is NOT running this country the communist party the greens are.
What I want to know is why doesnt the media pick her up on her comments and give it to her
like they would be doing if it was you and the liberal party making these false statements lying
and going back on their word. it is really annoying me, why arent they being held to account on all these lies etc. Cant something be done about it. The press in this country at present is
obviously under the clutches of the labor party. Get rid of this woman please she cannot run a
chook raffle we need a good strong leader like you. Good luck pam
these matters.

L Costin 04/03/11 07:14 PM Report Abuse

Tony Abbott MUST get out there and SELL his alternative to the Carbon Tax !!! If he fails to do this Labor will steam roll this legislation through, relying on people's ignorance to it's devastating effects.

My advice to Abbott - stop the personalized attacks on the red headed woodpecker and SINK this legislation by communicating with the PEOPLE!

Barbara 04/03/11 07:28 PM Report Abuse

I cannot believe that so many people did not think that Julia Gillard had no intention of bringing in a Carbon tax. Has there been any promise that she has kept.

March for justice 04/03/11 09:13 PM Report Abuse

All you fellow Australians, join our facebook page, march for justice and lets all stand up and fight for our rights. It is time to do something and doing something is better than doing NOTHING...

March for justice 04/03/11 09:15 PM Report Abuse

March for your own justice.

Please check it out on facebook to all Australian fellows and lets fight for our rights.

IT IS TIME!

Lorysky 05/03/11 01:44 AM Report Abuse

Julian Gillard is a Fabian socialist, Alan Brown(pm) is a socialist, most of the trade Union people are socialist and communist. We are ruled by the socialists/communists folks.
Australia is a socialist nation...no wonder Julia and Bob get on well with Obama and his
socialist and communist cronies. Why aren't the people screaming out about that issue too.
Why aren't conservative people crying out about the leftist socialist media that runs most
of our newspapers and the ABC.? DOWN WITH COMMUNISTS AND SOCIALISTS AND JIHADIST MUSLIMS. They are trying to take over our societies. Muslims are wanting to establish their Kaliphate and the socialist/communist leaders and the unions are trying to topple the free market system. AWAKE PEOPLE...PLEASE!!!!

Peter 05/03/11 10:16 AM Report Abuse

Julia Gillard is a member of the socialist left and has been since her university days in Adelaide and now she has joined with Bob Brown to ruin this great country and it is about time that the Canberra press gallery started to give them both a hard time instead of treading sofely sofely
Tony keep up the pressure on Juliea as I think she will crack under the pressure very soon she is just telling lie after lie and the people are waking up to her

Gary 05/03/11 01:40 PM Report Abuse

What about the cost of the government bureaucracy that will be set up to manage the carbon tax?

I have no respect for a Prime Minister who lies!

elle maria 05/03/11 01:57 PM Report Abuse

Actually it is a good thing that the Gillard Government is actually DOING something about emissions. I personally think she should be doing more. Per person, Australia is already the biggest emitter in the world. As a nation, we making a black name for ourselves. A carbon tax is one step, but switching to solar and wind ETC, and developing technology for storing it, is the other. Regardless of a 'broken promise' this is a good step.

nicole 05/03/11 03:50 PM Report Abuse

im 14 and i think that this carbon tax can simply be called a tax on life

Terence Cardwell 05/03/11 05:10 PM Report Abuse

Elle
That is rubbish. We emit 1 percent of all man made CO2 emissions. If we cut our CO2 emissions by 20% which is IMPOSSIBLE it would have an effect of .00000016% per year on the total CO2 in air.
China,USA, Sth Africa, Most of Europe, Asia and Africa do NOT have a carbon tax and NEVER will. Obama has declared NO carbon tax.
So where do you get this 'black name' from. Another'Wong' fallacy.
Climate change is the biggest Scam these con men have ever devised.
CO2 is an harmless gas. You breath it in at 400 ppm and out at 1000ppm. Plant growth increase with CO2 content. Someone said it is a poison because 100% will kill you. SO WILL oxygen ,nitrogen, Hydrogen etc. All must be in balance. I strongly suggest you do a LOT more research about wind and solar energy.
It is very inconsistent, unreliable AND expensive and require a great deal of maintenance. The average output is between 4% to 20% of capacity AND you don't know when you are going to get it.
Denmark who started all this is now relying on thermal power.

L Costin 05/03/11 05:48 PM Report Abuse

I see the elitist press gallery lead by Laurie Oakes is at it again - calling ordinary Australians who oppose this Carbon Tax looney rabble with a American tea party mentality.

Listen up Oakes and co: Concerned Australians are NOTHING like the American Tea Party, and for you to do so is an utterly dispicable attempt to shut down legitimate debate!! The same can be said for Windsor]s deliberate releasing of his threatening phone call - instead of handing it over to police he ran off to Channel Seven's O'Reilly and linked it to American style politics and racism. Windsor is a sook whose constituents are fuming over his betrayal of their vote.

I can't wait for the constituatants of Oakeshott and Windsor to punish these two clowns come election time - along with media tart Wilkie they utterly deserve it!!!

Bill Northwood 05/03/11 06:16 PM Report Abuse

I always thought I was a bit of a left-wing greenie until this carbon tax was thought up. It's insane even for me. I'm gonna go hug a tree.

Mandy 06/03/11 09:58 AM Report Abuse

Given the economic impact of this tax in terms of trade disadvantage for Australia creating issues with noncompetitive exports and highly competitive imports driving our agriculture and manufacturing to extinction, I think this needs to be a globally transparent debate. The party needs to commission a review of current and planned (with time frames) direct and indirect carbon tax across our trading partners and indeed the world. At present we are working without evidence, we are told we 'have to have it' and arguments are treated as self- evident facts? A PHD student could produce this document, an investigative reporter (do they still exist?) could produce this document, I wonder why it has not been done?

Douglas 06/03/11 01:46 PM Report Abuse

The volcanic eruption in Iceland, since its first spewing of volcanic ash has, in just our days, negated every single effort the government have made in the past few years to control CO2 emissions on our planet – all of the population of the planet.
Of course we know about this evil carbon dioxide that we are trying to suppress – it’s that vital chemical compound that every plant requires to live and grow, and to synthesize into oxygen for us humans, and all animal life.
I know, it's very disheartening to realize that all of the carbon emission savings we have accomplished while suffering the inconvenience and expense of: driving Prius hybrids, buying fabric grocery bags, sitting up till midnight to finish our kid's "The Green Revolution" science project, throwing out all of our non-green cleaning supplies, using only two squares of toilet paper, putting a brick in our toilet tank reservoir, selling our SUV and speedboat, vacationing at home instead of abroad, nearly getting hit every day on our bicycle, replacing all of our 50 cents light bulbs with $10.00 light bulbs...well, all of those things we have done have all gone down the tubes in just four days.

Mark Shove 06/03/11 08:14 PM Report Abuse

Julia and Labor have consistently stated that a price must be put on carbon.

Their preferred method was to use an ETS, but that was stopped when Tony Abbott rolled Malcolm Turnbull and then immediately reneged on a deal to support Labor with the CPRS (an ETS).

Labor is still intent on moving to an ETS over the next 4-6yrs. There will be an interim FIXED price levied on polluters....leading to an ETS over time. The price is yet to be set and any flow on costs will be compensated for (for both individuals and small/medium businesses)

This approach is budget neutral and will encourage consumers to purchase/use the lowest polluting products/services.

I support the Labor Carbon-Pricing strategy.......

Bruce 06/03/11 08:50 PM Report Abuse

No wonder we need the carbon tax, the cuyrrent goverment keep giving the money away,
Look at what we are giving away to other countries in 2010 -2011

1. Indonesia $458,700.00 million
2. Papua New Guinea $457,200,00 million
3. Solomon Islands $225,700..00 million
4. Afghanistan $123,100.00 million
5. Vietnam $119,800.00 million
6. Philippines $118,100.00 million
7.East Timor $102,700.00 million
8. Cambodia $64,200.00 million

TOTAL = $ 1,669,000,000.00 Billion (yeah folks that's right) - given away in 52 weeks!!!

Is that so that they can reduce there carbon emissions as well ??

but wait there’s more.
• Australia provides approximately 150,000 tonnes of food aid every year—about $65 million—to Bangladesh, Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Sudan and Chad

Kaite 06/03/11 09:01 PM Report Abuse

Next we will have a tax on the oxygen we breathe,

We already have taxes on water and food, covering what we put in our mouth,

Now the government want to start with what we all breathe out, next will be what we breathe in

Then What ????

Australia wake up !!

Lorysky 06/03/11 11:31 PM Report Abuse

The American Tea Party is a grass roots people's uprising, not violent, but just sick of the same things that are happening here in Oz. They are against higher taxes, large eletist
government and they help to vote in politicians who aspire to the conservative principles.
For Laurie Oakes to mention them like they are a rabble fringe is untoward and ignorant.
I am not surprised by him though as they stand for what our conservative liberal politicians stand for. The likes of him, Wayne Swan and other socialists should get their facts right
before they dump their political rubbish on us...Aussie citizens. Thank God for Andrew Bolt.
His big article in Saturday's Herald Sun was fantastic.
I hope Malcolm Turnbull gets shoved aside as he will vote for this dreaded carbon tax.

thetrureal 06/03/11 11:47 PM Report Abuse

The current system is failing:

No one likes a new tax or for that matter a tax!

Either you believe in climate change or not, pollution is real “carbon monoxide”

To change the “fuel” will have an impact on the reduction of carbon monoxide emotions, BUT will have a huge impact on the prices, now the question is, will it reduce the cost or increase the cost to the consumer? I seriously doubt it will reduce the cost as big business always wins because of our extreme capitalist financial system.

Since 1890’s when electricity was first implemented, the production and distribution has not changed and the reason being is that there is so much money to be made and hold control by the ruling classes.

If we break free from our dependence on oil, then the US/UN/WTO/OPEC will lose its control over the human race and the green back will be worthless, so I seriously doubt that these leaders will ever use different technologies unless they can control it.

Even that it is 2011; we are still living in darkness as the ruling classes want to maintain their master and slave mentality, which the Liberals love and never want it to change!

We as a species have to turn our attention to new technologies and implement self sufficient clean unlimited energy sources. We have to get rid of the reliance/distribution and the huge cost it occurs! Now I know this will infuriate the ruling classes but we are the majority that have allowed you to rule over us for too long. It is time we take control and responsibilities for our own actions and bring back the meaning of compassion and empathy.

Since we are old enough to learn and understand meaning, we are thought to listen, behave, follow the leader, don’t think just do and never question anything “to become sheep” so the phrases “it can’t be done, you can’t do it, it is just the way it is” in imprinted in our minds and we live by this lie and if you think differently then you are considered weird/strange or dangerous because people want to believe in the lies and stay in the comfort zones “but people never stop complaining about it”

If nothing changes it will just get worse and there might be no coming back!

Ben 07/03/11 05:24 PM Report Abuse

ALP ALL THE WAY

Terry 07/03/11 08:18 PM Report Abuse

Hey, I didn't vote for them.

Graeme Dougan 07/03/11 08:32 PM Report Abuse

It appears that PM Gillard's vulnerable Federal Government Alliance has contracted a severe case of GANG GREEN! Who's going to carry out the necessary amputation to save the Nation?

Dybsy 07/03/11 10:44 PM Report Abuse

It saddens me to see the petty bickering and arguing that goes on, come on ladies and gentlemen, we are all Australians and we all want what we 'believe' is best for our country. In knowing that, we must show some respect to each other and accept that whether you like it or not what they are saying they believe to be in the best interest to us all.
The issue is a Carbon Tax to reduce our emissions, what we need to ask ourselves is:

Is Australia ready to accept a Carbon Tax and is it the best thing for us right now?
Will introducing a Carbon Tax have the desired results?
Are there any viable alternatives to a Carbon Tax?
Will cutting Australia's emission's have much impact?
Was Thomas Edison a liar? "We will make electricity so cheap that only the rich will burn candles."

In my opinion the people of Australia aren't ready for a Carbon Tax, please let us recover from our disasters and the already rising cost of living. Let's talk about it some other time when it doesn't seem as though your kicking us while we are down.

I've been reading a bit about Carbon Taxing models (very interesting) and most conclude that it will work (if the research is done and the taxes set to the right amount), however there are ups and downs as with everything. It is a big step for our country and a bit of a gamble. I believe we should give it time and have a chance to know all the details about such a proposed tax before anything is decided on.

Can someone let Julia know she really shouldn't put something like this on us and then leave Australia, it's not showing much leadership and all it is doing is causing unrest within our country.

Tim Angus 08/03/11 12:01 AM Report Abuse

If Australians can't trust Julia Gillard on this issue how can they trust her on anything? She is a untrustworthy leader and should be in parliament, let alone the Prime Minister. The problem for her is not that she is a woman but it is that she does not know how run Australia properly and that Australians simply cannot trust her.

Lindy Sparrow 08/03/11 01:21 PM Report Abuse

The Carbon Tax is a great idea, we must accept that Climate Change is doing enormous damage to our planet and is already having a negative impact on our economy and our way of life.
Europe has introduced a Carbon Tax and more jobs have been created as a result.
I am disappointed in the Opposition's negative fear campaign. I would expect better from the Liberal Party. Why not show some leadership and good old fashioned values instead of merely stirring up fear and hatred in the community.
The Australian people deserve much more than that.

L Costin 08/03/11 02:14 PM Report Abuse

To Lindy - Europe has NOT introduced a Carbon Tax.....only one or two small countries have done so, and even then at a very small rate. The entire northen hemiphere has NOT moved on anything like a Carbon Tax and Australia is alreadt at a disadvantage with our trading partners - why would you want to place us in even a more precarious state?? This country makes up less than 2% of the world emissions, and for people who think little 'Orstralia' is going to save the world I have a bridge you might like to buy.

Yes, per capitia we are bad polluters.....but that can we addressed by introducing incentives....not a TAX that will filter through to every man woman and child in this country. This tax is effectively a tax on life itself......we ourselves and every living land animal breathes out carbon dioxide. Volcanoes do the same........the Icelandic volcano, in a space of 4 days, wiped out what mankind has done in the last 10 years.....think about that as you encourage our clueless politicans to introduce another TAX. Also think about who really benefits from a Carbon Tax. Certain people are going to get VERY rich from such a tax......namely investment bankers. People like Malcolm Turnbull and his mates...he was an investment banker for Goldman -Sachs before entering politics. That is why he is for such a punitive tax.

This tax, if introduced, will be passed on to ordinary consumers in the guise of higher lving expenses, levies and surcharges....and you can take that to the bank!!

John of Werribee 08/03/11 04:17 PM Report Abuse

Katie 06-03-11pm You suggested a tax on oxygen might be next by Labor. The Labor Carbon Tax is in fact a TAX on Carbon Dioxide CO2). Yes, everytine we humans exhale we exhale CO2 into the atmosphere.
So in a sense the government could tax every breath we take. Pretty good eh!
Afterall we trade our labours for income so we can spend it on other CO2 generating devices and foods to sustain our standard of living.

Climate change is a fantasy and so are many of the other notions output from the communist, tree hugging, social engineering, stone age thinking idiots.

For the greens. They should not be able to read this because they're using electricity generated by a coal fired power station and this goes against their principles. If they do respond then they are hypocrites.
Try living without electricity or any device that has created CO2 to make or creates CO2 to operate. The ONLY way to do this is live in the stone age.

Don't forget to when Ju LIAR retires she will have a huge pension to pay for her Carbon tax but you wont have the same level of money or privileges.

Hayley 08/03/11 04:24 PM Report Abuse

Bit of pot calling the kettle black here - because it's not as though Tony is known for his constant lying.
Regardless, you're focusing on the wrong thing here. Surely we should be concerned with what is best for Australia (and our planet), rather than who has 'betrayed our trust'. Can we perhaps focus on the issue at hand, rather than playing high school games with each other?

Bob 08/03/11 04:27 PM Report Abuse

L Costin is definately right. A carbon tax will be a flexible and hidden GST that will apply to everything. Unlike the GST, you won't pay for a product and see 10% Carbon Tax added to the bill. When some companies cash in on it and put their prices up by a lot more, consumers won't be able to work out how much of the price hike is really the carbon tax and how much is it companies cashing in on it.

Low income earners and pensioners will be at the mercy of any Government there after to ensure that adjustments to it are offset with subsidies, but Government in the past have demonstrated that they can't keep on top of this.

John of Werribee 08/03/11 05:07 PM Report Abuse

Every politician that supports and/or votes for this Carbon Tax in parliament should be named publicly and listed for all Australians to see at the next election. Then we will know who not to vote for.

Robert Drummond 08/03/11 05:14 PM Report Abuse

It must be more than obvious to the Australian voter that any vote for Labour is just voting for the Greens when Labour is bowing to Green policies to stay in government. So even if a voter is a died-in-the-wool Labour supporter, what's the point of voting Labour?

Robert Drummond 08/03/11 05:18 PM Report Abuse

MESSAGE TO LABOUR supporters: Do you vote for the Greens? If you vote Labour, you'll get government by the Greens anyway.

albertokang 09/03/11 10:07 AM Report Abuse

Why do we, Australians have to Lead the world by Pricing Carbon, why not wait around to other countries that have higher emissions than Australia Price Carbon, then we can see if it really would benefit our nation.

Richard 09/03/11 11:36 PM Report Abuse

Both sides will use advertising in all media at the taxpayers' expense, when it suits them, and to deny that is hypocrisy of the worst kind

John Trigge 10/03/11 06:22 AM Report Abuse

The Liberal Party might get a shock if they continue down the path of promoting an alternative to Labor's carbon tax. ANY major budgetary change with the purpose of 'controlling the climate' will cause a similar revolt by Australians.

Carbon dioxide has NOT BEEN PROVEN to be the cause of any catastrophic effect on the Earth's climate.

Theo 10/03/11 11:41 AM Report Abuse

Oooooohh!!! How embarassing that Julie Gillard had a standing ovation from a plaguarised speech.

Obviously Julia has not viewed the Utube images of the rock star Bono's speech - "When I was a small boy and watched men walk on the moon, I thought that Americans could do anything". Almost word for word - plaguarism.

It was absolute puke material - just about every word that came out of her mouth PRAISED America. Who wouldn't give a standing ovation when someone is standing in front of us telling us how great we are.

Boofy 15/03/11 06:16 AM Report Abuse

Abbott's climate change denial is truly really scary.
Climate change is real

His children will look back at someone like Tony Abbott who worked hard to hasten the devastation of the world with puzzlement. How could the liberal party vote in such an extremist.

MALCOLM COME BACK PLEEEEEEEEEESE.

Tony is scary.

Vivian Baker 15/03/11 11:12 AM Report Abuse

Man-made CO2 in the air is one, one hundredth thousandth of the air mass by volume. In other words that’s one C02 molecule in every 9,000,000 molecules of air. It will have absolutely no affect changing our climate at all. As a decimal value it is 0.00001% of the air. My understanding has come from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s atmosphere.

Paul 17/03/11 12:47 AM Report Abuse

Tony Abbott and the liberal party are fools for trying to delay important action on climate change. Even the most conservative of your past leaders (john howard) supported pricing carbon, yet the close minded liberals we see running fear campaigns based on lies and misinformation have stooped even lower than howard.
Inaction is not an option. and neither is the ridiculous policy position being proposed by abbott of direct action. IT WILL NOT WORK BY ITSELF. i was about to say that maybe abbott got that policy position from his advisor george pell, until i remembered that pell doesn't believe in climate change either....
WAKE UP liberal party, get rid of abbott so this nation can have the sophisticated debate we need about our collective action to tackle climate change!!

Ian Pocock 17/03/11 12:24 PM Report Abuse

In reading these comment by people talking about climate change. Yes it is real, but it is part of evolution. People have to look at history and view the dinosaurs and the ice to realise that climate change is real. However this dosen't mean the human race can't do thing better.

I also read that some comment about John Howard saying that he would not introduce GST. This is correct, but at least he took the GST to an election as a mandate.

So no to a Carbon tax unless the government has the gut to take as a mandate to a election.

Mere Male 18/03/11 01:04 AM Report Abuse

If tomorrow every human was laid waste global warming AND cooling would continue as it has done for millions of years. Using climate change as an excuse to raise revenue in order to cover a political budget black hole i.e., budget surplus for FY 12/13, is reprehensible. Mr Abbott, please pull no stops in your effort to defeat this ludicrous tax grab by a Govt completely destitute of ideas, principles and morals.

Peter Q 18/03/11 01:10 PM Report Abuse

First, fight this ridiculous self-flagellation proposed by the Govt. It would be good if you could find a way to point out the futility of charging the "polluters" more => higher energy costs => giving some of the money to help people pay those bills. The only beneficiary along the way will be the army of bureaucrats running it.
Second, you were right to state that the science is not settled, etc. That clown Garnaut starts from the assumption that we are the main cause of climate change/global warming/whatever they call it this week. As a climate scientist he makes a poor economist. Recall his background is diplomacy, which means he will fight any cause even if he knows it's complete rubbish.

Second, sack Greg Hunt. Tell him to join the Greens. Despite all of the evidence to the contrary, and the obvious lack of evidence of the alarmists, he's still pushing their AGW barrow.

Richard J 19/03/11 06:56 PM Report Abuse

For those with an interest in a rational perspective on the science behind "climate change" the following lecture from Dr Richard Muller (physicist from Berkley University USA) is worth a look at. He dispels a number of myths and misconceptions that have been overly embraced by politicians, the media and even the IPCC. He does think we/CO2 is contributing but not to the extent that has been generally promoted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbR0EPWgkEI

The best, the most respected and by far the most active climate change science blog is:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/ .

Admittedly the prevailing opinion is sceptical, but it does invite comments from both sides of the debate as opposed to the "warmist" blogs tend to delete contrary opionion. A number of new articles are posted each day - worth keeping an eye on.

Alison Laing 19/03/11 07:36 PM Report Abuse

I am surprised there is no mention of the Anti Carbon Tax Rally in George Street Brisbane on Wed 23rd March at 12.30pm. I know everyone in busy, etc, but honestly???? Not in the LNP newsletter... We know the general media won't publish the details. Or am I missing something? Anyway there are plenty of Facebook Pages to chat to like minded people about this crazy FRAUD.

L Costin 20/03/11 01:31 AM Report Abuse

Did anybody watch Ross Garnaut on ABC Lateline the other night? This man is NOT a qualified scientist - he is an Economist!! Just what I suspected all along. This also confirms what I suspected about Malcolm Turnbull as well. Before entering politics this man worked for Goldman-Sachs as an investment banker!! These investment bankers and economists are salivating at the prospect of a Gilliard Carbon Tax....they will get rich out of it! I said all along that there is serious money to be made out of a Carbon Tax/ETS scheme........and you and I won't be the bunnies making it! Industry will merely pass on all their costs to US......and no compensation payments from Gilliard and co. will cover it all. WE the sheeple, will pay and pay and pay. If I thought for one moment that this Carbon Tax was designed to save this planet I could swallow this swill. But a TAX will not save us.......global governments MUST address the elephant in the room.....and that is rapidly rising global population!! During WW1 we were standing at 2 billlion, today we are heading for 8 billlion. That is a four fold increase in a space of 90 years!! Going by current trends that will be nearly 30 billion within another 100 years! The planet will NOT be able to support those sort of numbers. Unless global governments address this we are toast. Tis that simple...

Brandon 20/03/11 03:19 PM Report Abuse

you can stop labor liberal

Peter 21/03/11 10:46 AM Report Abuse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9_XZ5YIOl0

john 23/03/11 01:40 PM Report Abuse

They can't even get the name of the tax right.... the bad stuff is called Carbon Dioxide... it should be a "Carbon Dioxide Tax" --- also we need answers to a couple of simple questions -


By how much will the implementation of this tax reduce global warming ? Seriously the Australian tax payers need to understand that this XX Billion dolar tax will reduce global warming by... C over xx years.

How much did the installation of bats in the roof's of houses reduce Australia's energy use ? We spent $4 Billion, how much did we save ?

Jack 23/03/11 01:59 PM Report Abuse

"Global Warming" as it reads, is a global issue, we can not act along. The carbon tax will only push our businesses to some where poeple can pollute as much as you can like China. The total pollution will not decrease but will increase! If there is no international agreements and collaborations, we just simply can not act along. it will waste our money.

Peter 23/03/11 02:19 PM Report Abuse

I've just read an interesting article on the web. The air quality in Japan now, after all those nuclear and radiation stuff, is still better than the air quality in Beijing. So what I am saying is, please open your eyes and look around, who is polluting the most? is us (including Japan, US, Europe) or those countries like China or India? Think about it, even we are all on candle lights, and everyone gets naked and lives in the trees as James Cameron suggested in Avatar, do you think those big polluters will stop? NO, they will just laugh at us!

Andrew 23/03/11 04:26 PM Report Abuse

It is great that people have an opinion, and great they have the freedom to express it. I'm amazed, however, at the total lack of debate about the core issue. The question is not "how much will having a carbon tax hurt me"... the Govt has not yet announced what arrangements it will make for compensation and other adjustments. The core question is "what is the cost of NOT taking action". Tony Abbott is proposing an alternate approach, fine and good. Will this achieve what is needed? For too long we have been a rich country in a poor world, and acted as though there was little accounting needed for our industrialisation and urbanisation. I wonder if Mr Abbott's approach would actually help us to be realistic about the REAL cost of the life we think we are entitled to.

L Costin 23/03/11 08:33 PM Report Abuse

And still: NO POLITICIAN IS WILLING TO ADDRESS THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!!!!

The elephant in the room is rapidly increasing global population! Think about this as we squabble over a Carbon Tax....

WW1 2 billion people
WW2 4 billion people
2011 Nearing 8 billion people

In a space of 90 years we have increased by 4 times.......in another 90 years, going by current trends, and if nothing is done, we will see populations of around 30 billion people! And that people will see the end of the planet as we know it.

lazyboylizard 23/03/11 10:52 PM Report Abuse

mr abbot what is your proposal on reducing emission?

lisa 24/03/11 04:41 PM Report Abuse

Let's Australia people to decide if we want this carbon tax or not. Julia Gillard is a liar and sadly she is the prime minister. Bring on the election NOW

mark 24/03/11 09:00 PM Report Abuse

Come on Tony, get behind the ETS. You know it's the right thing to do. Malcolm was right!

L Costin 24/03/11 09:50 PM Report Abuse

[mark 24/03/11 09:00 PM Report Abuse
Come on Tony, get behind the ETS. You know it's the right thing to do. Malcolm was right! ]

Before entering politics Malcolm Turnbull was an investment banker for Goldman-Sachs. He and his investment banker buddies are salivating over the prospect of an introduced Carbon Tax. Why? Because certain people will get very rich from such a Tax.....namely Malcolm and his friends. Turnbull has an ego that matches Kevin Rudds......it's all about him making a name for himself. Turnbull will undermine Abbotts efforts as coalition leader, hoping to place himself within striking distance of the role of PM.

I have a husband who has worked in the aluminium industry for 40 years.....this industry supports thousands of families, supports many communities and gives scholarships to promising young talent in this country. This is only one of many industries that will be severely affected by a Carbon tax. These industries simply will not be able to compete with their competitors (whose countries do NOT have a Carbon Tax or ETS in place. The only way these companies will be able to survive is to offshore their operations to countries like India, Africa, South America or China. Gilliard is going it alone, NOT waiting for a global consenus to move in unison on such a scheme. Gilliard is placing Australia's economic future in jepardy for no real gain. If this country closed down every single power station overnight and shut down our major industries it wouldn't make any difference in the grande scheme of things. Australia is simply TOO small. Our emissions only make up 1.4% of the total global output!!!! China would make up Australia's output in just 6 weeks !!! That's right......Julia Gilliard is doing this for political gain, nothing more, nothing less. She is willing to place this countries economic prosperity in peril for 6 lousy weeks and political grandstanding. The CEO of Bluescope steel is warning us.........don't take this man's word lightly, because the stakeholders of our aluminium refineries and aluminium smelters, steel makers , cement makers are all saying the same thing.

Everything this Labor government has done to date has been a utter catastrope, from school halls, pink batts, to border protection, ......why would you trust them with the future of your kids?????

Abbott has practical sensible solutions in which to address climate change.
1. Replanting Australia with trees
2. Enriching our soils
3. Green algae technology
4. Smarter greener business practices

I ask all thinking Australians to REJECT this ill concieved Tax. A Tax that will weave itself into every corner of Australian life and be increased over the decades. It has been a failure in other countries, and targets are NOT being met........so why isn't Julia telling you about that????

Andrew 24/03/11 10:53 PM Report Abuse

I am puzzled at the "Julia is a liar" rhetoric scatter through these post. Sure, call her inconsistent, lambast her for changing her mind, but where is the lie?

Mudjanau 25/03/11 11:55 AM Report Abuse

Andrew, go to the ABC site and watch the Q&A program from 2 weeks ago with Julia. She lied many times during that interview. Her nervous laugh is a giveaway.

I firmly believe the carbon dioxide tax is to replenish the coffers!

mike 25/03/11 03:19 PM Report Abuse

Julia Gullard is a liar because she is an opportunist. She would do anything to get the job and she will do anything to keep her on that job.

alan 25/03/11 03:31 PM Report Abuse

Ok, climate change is real. but can we find a more intellegent way to combat it rather than straight go to hit people 'pockets? Remember the finacial crisis just over 2 years ago? People are still struggling.

L Costin 25/03/11 06:55 PM Report Abuse

TO ALLAN

Abbott has practical sensible solutions in which to address climate change.
1. Replanting Australia with trees
2. Enriching our soils
3. Green algae technology
4. Smarter greener business practices

Amy 26/03/11 05:40 PM Report Abuse

Why is it just Australian families? Let's not forget that it also affect already struggling students living out of home, on minimal hours per week (due to new laws on breaks) and therefore lack of money. I already struggle to pay the bills let alone pay for food each week, soon I will not be able to afford to attend university due to the increasing fuel prices! This is a joke!

Jeff 28/03/11 02:24 AM Report Abuse

Julia's out of control behaviour in parliment

I recently watch the 'In Parliment" highlights on the ABC1 just recently, I was astonished how badly out-of-control, Julia G. answered questions, very rude, disrespectfully to the chair and just plain fencing the questions by raised by the opposition a 'fogging techique'. She has lost ALL crediability, and policitical currency in the trust and respect, which people voted her in and were hood-winked by a pretty smile. To this I apologise to Tony and his team.
I believe that we should do this better for the environment but I sincerely doubt that the prospoed Labor ETS will not make any difference, my challenge to the Liberals give a voice, firm, strong and true that will lead us and drown out the Labor lies with sound policy that will make a difference and something to believe in.

Michael 28/03/11 01:05 PM Report Abuse

This is Australia's responsibility. It is the right thing to do.
"Liberal" Australian's are reaffirming there selfish, narrow-minded standpoint by
following Abbott's irrational response.

m thane 28/03/11 09:33 PM Report Abuse

Is there a way we can get rid of these liars before the term end?

Peter 29/03/11 11:50 PM Report Abuse

Most of the people that are complaining about the carbon tax are old folks who barely work anymore and are the ones that consistently complaining about Australia moving forward. i.e building more residential homes in SA or other crap like that.

alex 30/03/11 08:49 AM Report Abuse

hey every one we all know the show called under belly, so whos the real maffia? of australia! l think we have a new don? sorry donna! lol

Jeff 30/03/11 03:29 PM Report Abuse

TO Peter

"Most..people...complaining..are old folks who barely work."
Well the is about most generalising, irrational comment it have heard in a while.

I am trained Accountant, and 42yrs, so I guess I am in the 'old folks' category.

Most people agree that we should live a cleaner lifestyle existence, I am for a carbon system, not the proposed Labor view that has been put up.
My problem with the framework, is the deceitful way in which Julia G. when to the election (2010), on the pretext to secure votes, that she was NOT going to implement a EFT/Carbon Trading Scheme. At the end of the day their framework is not going to plant one extra tree, nor pour money into wind/solar/thermal, there is not proposed thought to shut down the coal power generators.
I just see the whole scheme is another political whitewash and will look good on Julia G. political resume with the international community.

Mere Male 30/03/11 08:04 PM Report Abuse

I cannot agree with Jeff, posted 30/03/11 at 03:29pm, more... Labor's CO2 tax is not about doing anything constructive; it's all about being seen doing something for the sake of it and because they were told to by Bob Brown, or else. Not even Labor's paid puppet, Mr Garnaut, will tell you how much less CO2 will be produced because of this 5 year tax lead-in to an ETS. That's because the amount is a very embarrassing ZERO%. It'll be costly too, but only to higher income earners... typical of Labor's wealth redistribution core principle.

Jeff 30/03/11 09:57 PM Report Abuse

To Mere Male (with all the pro-feminists around don’t devalue yourself with Mere)
I believe that you misquoted the sentiment from my prior statement. The fact is that I imply the exact opposite, Australia is not having a political closing down fire sale. Is Labor’s ETS the real next best thing? In fact doing “something for the sake of it” is a very highly dangerous ideology.
The only way out of this industrial mess we have created for ourselves is to remember how the planet has continuously provided for us and will do so for many thousands of years to come. Planting trees, greening Australia, is the most logical step since, trees are the best air-filters and their primary food source is ‘carbon dioxide ’ and return trees omit oxygen etc. most people learnt this stuff at school under ‘photosynthesis’. Labor’s ETS does not address the phasing out of coal-powered stations and the greener wind/thermal/wave/solar technologies. Having an ETS that just hands out money like lollies, through a compensation method to user and polluter, will not plant one-tree and will not make any noticeable difference to the plant it all just ‘political spin’ pending economical disaster.
The other issue to be interjected is Climate Change Events, I have heard recently on the ABC, that so called climate professionals were attributing the unfortunate events in New Zealand and Japan as a Climate Change Event. Any seismologist know well that continental earth/plates have been raging under the sea for thousands of years, in fact it is the same plate that effect Japan and New Zealand that causes the earthquake it through the fault lines that created these continents, it is a ‘natural event’.
And if that wasn’t enough hype/spin, people then attribute the recent flooding of Queensland to ‘Climate Change’, these flood events are a ‘natural event’ to our landscape, they have been around for thousands of years as well, the only thing that changed in the past two hundred years is that areas that are natural flood plains have been settled and populated in front on the natural water causeway, and people attribute that to ‘Climate Change’.
And after all that the Insurance companies, politicians, lobby, spook the markets, “Climate Change, act now,” sending electricity prices and fuel sky-rocketing. When will all this madness end, and people just wake up from this monumental bad dream.
I give Julia G. six months, and she will have the someone (like the Rudd knock) on her door as for her green-card, “I think we have the numbers”.
It is time that the Liberal/Abbott rise up above the policital lies of the Labor/Green and provide us, with an honest solution and give us hope and restore faith in our nations leaders.

Mere Male 31/03/11 01:02 AM Report Abuse

Jeff, I think you mis-read my first reply to you... I actually agree with you 100% (read the first line of my comment again). A carbon tax, ETS or whatever they want to call it, will do nothing except add cost to everything. CO2 emissions wont reduce. Effective measures like you allude to (coal power stations, trees, etc) will not get a mention. Labor is forced to this holy grail of a CO2 tax by the Greens who somehow think by us paying more for everything the global temperature will magically drop. It wont. If all humans were wiped out tomorrow, guess what? Climate change will continue, as it has done for millions of years. I'm all for conservation of finite resources and reduction of pollution, but I steadfastly refuse to accept the need for a tax because somehow it will stop the planets natural cycle. Linking natural disasters like Qld floods to Climate Change is equally ridiculous... live near a major river, on a massive natural flood plain, in a tropical climate and sooner or later your going to get flooded. It's not rocket science, and definitely not climate change science. As to my name, I am far from 'mere'... its very much tongue-in-cheek.

scott 01/04/11 11:36 AM Report Abuse

I urge you all to read into "global warming" or climate change as it is now called. I think when you look closely you will find that there is no "real" evidence that CO2 causes global warming.
I personally believe it is the sun, yes that big thing in the sky that "WARMS" me up..... crazy i know, right.

Holly 02/04/11 09:07 PM Report Abuse

For all you idiots believing the rubbish that the LNP is putting out, the Carbon tax is not on small businesses, it is on the top 1000 polluting companies in the country. It is not a 'massive tax on families' but a tax to stop these big businesses ruining the environment with no consequence. This is Australia's responsibility to appreciate what we have before it's too late.

In regards to the price increase, prices are rising anyway due to the fact that we only have a limited supply of oil. As it becomes harder to extract petroleum the price will increase. This will have flow on effects to us at the pumps and also in the supermarkets due to increased freight costs.

Come on Tony, get behind this. You know it's the right thing to do.

Jeffery 03/04/11 01:51 AM Report Abuse

In any government there is always an element of propaganda what truth do you believe in the end, do you honestly believe that the 1000 polluting companies won’t escalate their pricing beyond the so called ETS cash for votes; ultimately the consumer will pay, just like another GST; if you genuinely read the sentiment in the above quotations, most people believe living greener and more responsibly.

L Costin 03/04/11 02:14 AM Report Abuse

Dear Holly - the government will charge a Carbon Tax on 1000 top polluting companies in this country, right? Then those top 1000 polluting companies will pass that cost onto their consumers, right? Then the government will compensate low and middle income earners to cope with the past on costs, right? Our top 1000 polluting companies will no longer be able to compete with their international rivals because none of the major emitters have such a Tax in place, right? Russia, no. China, no. The USA, no. Europe, no. India, no. Africa, no. South America, no. Indonesia, no. None of these countries have a complete ETS or Carbon Tax in place. Australia is a minnow that will make not one iota of a difference. We are a pimple on the face of the earth that emitts 1.4% of global output. And you want to destroy this countries economy for a piddling 1.4% ? Let's hope you have some answers for your kids when they can't get a job in this country.

Guess what? Let's hope you and your family don't rely on any of those 1000 companies for a living. Going by your post you have no idea what this Tax will do.........and neither does the dopey Labor Party!!

Heather Pooloo 03/04/11 10:40 AM Report Abuse

What disturbes me the most about this so-called "carbon tax" is the psuedo science behind it and the gagging of any individual who may consider an alternate view to the varying global temperatures. A simple example of this would be the science of sun spot activity and its affect on climate.

A dramatic correlation between sunspots and global temperatures can be seen in historical records going back several centuries. During the Maunder Minimum, a period of diminished solar activity between 1645 and 1715, sunspots were rare on the face of the sun, sometimes disappearing entirely for months to years. This period coincides with the Little Ice Age, an historically famous time of abnormal low temperatures.

Additionally, I strongly believe that Tony Abbott has a responsibility to insist that the extreme policies of Julia Gillard be thoroughly questioned and insist that all Australians are aware of just where this money would go. And I mean every last cent of it. I have zero doubt that this global scare campaign of global warming and taxing us for the air that we breathe is nothing more than another revenue raising tool to empower and enrich the global elite and further squash the rest of us on this planet.

A little research will pretty quickly show this tax for just what it is.

Debbie 03/04/11 11:11 PM Report Abuse

Julia when will you listen to us Australians!! We sold our beautiful house just before xmas as we could not afford the mortgage due to the price increases of living. you increase everything except for the wages how do you expect us to survive?

Debbie 03/04/11 11:12 PM Report Abuse

This carbon tax is another waste of time and australian tax payers money. just another way to send us Australians into more debts we struggle as it is to pay rent, bills and put food on the table.

Debbie 03/04/11 11:13 PM Report Abuse

We have a 1 year old and another due in 10 weeks and 1 wage coming in we have 1 car loan and rent to pay and even thats a struggle. Petrol prices are astronomical , we pay a flood tax. Im all for helping others and in our country but, when you start giving money out to other countries who let me remind you JULIA do not help us back thats when we the working struggling Australians who you clearly don't listen to get annoyed.

Debbie 03/04/11 11:15 PM Report Abuse

Who's going to help me with my 2 kids?? Are you going to help me pay for nappies and formula out of your lovely paypacket the rising electricity which with the carbon tax will increase, will you increase my husbands pay to account for that?.Stop and listen to us, Stop making us suffer thats what your doing

Debbie 03/04/11 11:17 PM Report Abuse

do you realise how many people can not afford a home and have sold there houses for that reason??

Debbie 03/04/11 11:17 PM Report Abuse

You clearly said there would be no carbon tax under your government you have mis lead us and I think you owe every Australian an apology.

Debbie 03/04/11 11:20 PM Report Abuse

Listen to us

alex 04/04/11 06:24 AM Report Abuse

a lady mentions its only for the large companies, yes l agree, but lets not forget the tax that rud put the mines, 25% yes well ln my industry it has pushed up the fee buy 25% the mine own the querries and when there done they become waste land fill, fee were $58.50 last year but now we are paying $88 per tonne, and they quarries that are still acttive are selling building materials with the 25% increse, so going back to holy l agree with what you are saying, but hey holy they will pass on the tax increse , be gas ,fuel ,transport, power, etc, so at the end of the day we cant take on the zillionaires of this country and not expect to pay. if it gets to hard they pack up show and go to china south america, india, were thats where the carbontax should be ,but not hope in hell for a long time , so who suffers again, little australia, high unemployment, fresh air, and on the dole, wow

G.Maxwell 05/04/11 04:07 PM Report Abuse

It truly astounds me that there are still those that dispute the science of climate change and the role of CO2. I am all for alternate views and a robust debate on climate change and its causes but these views need to be based on credible scientific evidence. To illustrate my point I quote Scott (1/4/11) “I urge you all to read into "global warming" or climate change as it is now called. I think when you look closely you will find that there is no "real" evidence that CO2 causes global warming.
I personally believe it is the sun, yes that big thing in the sky that "WARMS" me up..... crazy i know, right.” I would truly like to know which CREDIBLE climate scientist this came from. It is a fact that more than 90% of CREDIBLE CLIMATE scientists agree that CO2 is a major contributing factor to climate change. Looking at it from a logical point of view, if scientists have got it wrong what are the consequences of acting on reducing carbon emissions? The result will probably be that we end up with a cleaner, greener country to live in. On the other hand what if the majority of scientist ARE correct and we DON’T ACT NOW?
THINK ABOUT IT!!!
That brings me to Tony Abbott’s alternative in the form of his ‘Direct Action Plan’. This plan relies on 60 % of the reduction of CO2 being achieved through soil sequestration. It has been pointed out by the CSIRO that Tony’s plan is severely flawed and will not be able to deliver the required CO2 reduction without approximately 65% of Australia’s land mass being dedicated to CO2 soil sequestration. In contrast to climate change science the science behind soil sequestration is far from being proven. It has been pointed out by the CSIRO that Tony’s plan is severely flawed and will not be able to deliver the required CO2 reduction without approximately 65% of Australia’s land mass being dedicated to CO2 soil sequestration. Tony’s plan will also attract a cost of about $30 million, where do you think this will come from?

Yes, I do admit that Australia is only a small Global contributor (although we are the largest contributor per capita in the World!) to CO2 emissions, but the fact of the matter is whether you believe that CO2 emissions are contributing to climate change or not energy prices are still going to rise and keep rising into the future. We are fast approaching, or have already reached a point where the world’s energy demands will outstrip the ability to supply due to depleted and more difficult to extract reserves of coal and oil and an increase in world population and living standards among other reasons. What does this mean for Australia? It means that oil and energy prices will continue to rise regardless of whether or not we have a price on carbon. The fact of the matter is that the carbon price is an effective tool to drive Australia towards a low carbon economy which will help to insulate Australia from rapidly rising world prices on oil.

Without putting an economic value on carbon companies do not have the incentive required to act to reduce their carbon emissions. This action along with Government investment, funded through the carbon price, in renewables and clean energy will help drive increasing employment in this area and will see a gradual transition of jobs across to the renewables and clean energy sector. This will offset job losses in other areas that may result from a price on carbon.

To the comment “Our top 1000 polluting companies will no longer be able to compete with their international rivals because none of the major emitters have such a Tax in place, right? Russia, no. China, no. The USA, no. Europe, no. India, no. Africa, no. South America, no.” (L Costin 3/4/11). You will find that there are a lot of countries including China that already have policies in place to move towards a low emissions economy and if we are to stay relevant in the international economy we need to act NOW.


Yes, there is going to be some short term pain caused by a price on carbon but it will be insignificant when compared to the consequences of inaction on Australia’s future economy and environment?

The Carbon Price - "a small price to pay for a future”

Jeff 05/04/11 05:32 PM Report Abuse

G.Maxwell
RE: ETS = PTTS - Pollution-Trading-Tax-Scheme (how do you like that acroynom)!!

Like you I share a passion for doing something do, which goes beyond the "Carbon Price", lets have an ETS that phases out coal-powered electricity stations and other pollutions in our environment; but NOT give out CASH for VOTES refunds that wont plant one tree, install one windpower generator. Lets have "short term pain" now my problem is that Labor/Green's policy is just policitical white-wash that serves nothing more that a point on Julia G.'s resume - that we are the leading country that shows America the way.
The whole thing should be relabeled the pollution-trading-tax-scheme PTTS; because at the end of the day this scheme will not save the planet.

Jeff 05/04/11 05:37 PM Report Abuse

Maxwell
RE: ETS = PTTS - Pollution-Trading-Tax-Scheme (how do you like that acronym)!!

Like you I share a passion for doing something do, which goes beyond the "Carbon Price", let’s have an ETS that phases out coal-powered electricity stations and other pollutions in our environment; but NOT give out CASH for VOTES refunds that won’t plant one tree, install one wind-power generator. Let’s have "short term pain" now my problem is that Labor/Green's policy is just political white-wash that serves nothing more than a point on Julia G.'s resume (a feel-good end-note) - that we are the leading country that shows world/America the way; while the rest of the worlds (America) accelerates the industrial pollution revolution.
The whole thing should be relabelled the pollution-trading-tax-scheme PTTS; because at the end of the day this scheme will not save the planet.

mere male 05/04/11 05:43 PM Report Abuse

G.Maxwell... 90% of 'credible' climate scientists does not an argument for a tax make. You neglect to state these credible scientists belong only to the select group which actually agree with Labor's political goal of a price on CO2. It is fact any scientist or group NOT agreeing with CO2 human induced climate change is labelled a CC denier and their argument automatically ignored. So, by your figure's you are ignoring the climate change expertise, opinions and studies of well over 50% of climate change scientists globally... not very smart champ. You would do well to study both sides of the arguments, assess the facts on both sides and ignore the politically motivated tripe of self-interested lobby groups. I was fooled for a while, but after looking at both sides I'm leaning well away from the human induced CO2 climate change bunkum. I can assure you, if humans were wiped of the face of the planet tonight, climate change would continue as it has done for millions of years... decade long, century long even millennium long fluctuations ARE historically proven and any current fluctuations are but blips on the screen, so to speak and nothing to do with human activity. Climate change occurs, yes, absolutely. But don't force a tax on me in the name of human induced climate change. If its a tax to save resources, call it that. If its a tax to reduce pollution, say so. But do not tax me on a myth.

Jeff 05/04/11 06:33 PM Report Abuse

Hey Mere Male

well put, the carbon myth...

The goldfish bowl theory; nice out plant was complete all the elements in solid and gas forms are the contained more or less since time began. We may have fashion carbon into our notebooks or LCD HD TVs or created roads, airports but the elements in the earth still stay the same, aren’t they constant like the gravity that holds them to our planet?
CO2 has always been here, it is a core element for life on this planet, and without CO2 there would not been any trees or green planet life or food to eat.

One must not forget the valuable part our oceans aren’t they 80% of the planet's surface? It’s the water H2O, hydrogen and Oxygen.
What about the natural global warming of natural events that formation of our world with volcanic activity that fashioned the continents, fires etc.

Our planet will adapt and it has a way - since isn’t evolution to fix and imbalance. Our so-called controlling CO2 is like as trying to put shade-clothe from the moon to stop the sun heat us up too much - it’s not going to happen.
People are so focused on this ETS/CO2 as ‘fire-sale’; we must have it now because there aren’t enough tickets on the space-shuttle to get of this planet; what is science-fiction from fact.

Jeff 05/04/11 06:34 PM Report Abuse

Hey Mere Male
well put, the carbon myth...
The goldfish bowl theory; since our plant was complete all the elements in solid and gas forms are the contained more or less since time began. We may have fashion carbon into our notebooks or LCD HD TVs or created roads, airports but the elements in the earth still stay the same, aren’t they constant like the gravity that holds them to our planet?
CO2 has always been here, it is a core element for life on this planet, and without CO2 there would not been any trees or green planet life or food to eat.
One must not forget the valuable part our oceans aren’t they 80% of the planet's surface? It’s the water H2O, hydrogen and Oxygen.
What about the natural global warming of natural events that formation of our world with volcanic activity that fashioned the continents, fires etc.
Our planet will adapt and it has a way - since isn’t evolution to fix and imbalance. Our so-called controlling CO2 is like as trying to put shade-clothe from the moon to stop the sun heat us up too much - it’s not going to happen.
People are so focused on this ETS/CO2 as ‘fire-sale’; we must have it now because there aren’t enough tickets on the space-shuttle to get of this planet; what is science-fiction from fact.

Luke 06/04/11 06:10 AM Report Abuse

What i want to know is. What will the Liberal party do to protect my firearms rights. Will the Liberal party get rid of the Greens and Bob browns far left extreamist views..??

I want to know were my vote is going. As i do NOT want to give the Greens ANY POWER as i know they stand for everything that will stop my beloved hobbies. Firearms Hunting and fishing.


Will Tony Abottt take our Firearms like John Howard did or will he let us keep them and our sport. Because i know the Greens want my firearms and the ban of my beloved sport. Will Mr Abott and the Liberals protect my rights as a firearm owner...?? And will the Liberals stand up to the Greens and put them back in their holes that they climbed out of.


GET RID OF THE GREENS AND THEIR EXTREAM VIEWS THEY WILL DESTROY THE TRUE AUSTRALIA.

Michelle 11/04/11 03:50 PM Report Abuse

Why are my climate tax's going to go overseas if it is to make Australia better then shouldn't the money go into projects like Peter Andrews has proposed and people like him who want to fix the country we live in. Promote the of use less chemicals and polutants in australia. Greening Australia what a BIG FAT LIE.
Seems to me our Tax will just go overseas to support the UN to control the world and wage more wars on countries that do not agree with the UN. Listen to the people Tony we want the carbon tax stopped never to be raised again by any goverment of Australia the Australian people have spoken. Stand up for what you know is right in your heart and do not listen to the EGO.

Matthew C 12/04/11 12:15 AM Report Abuse

I am involved in the crucial Australian housing industry. Whilst the industry appears to be large and strong from the outside, it is very fragile. Prone to shocks from many angles, supply of land, intrest rates and government policy to name a few.

Labor says it supports working families, what effect will this carbon tax have on the already high cost of housing in this nation. I suspect it would have a major impact on the price of a new home, which will in turn put more pressure on the price of rents.

Every input in the process is "carbon intensive" to manufacture and given the fact these materials are not manufactured on site, the cost of transportation is also likely to be a problem.

Our society has developed over thousands of years to this point. Each stage in the process representing a degree of progress that has allowed for it to flourish further. Increasing living standards and quality/length of life along the way. This is not something we can or should reverse in an instant.

Our need for complex housing, power and personal transportation is crucial to the very function of our society and not something we can just stop needing, or using. There are no alternatives and a tax will not cause alternatives to materialise (it would be nice of Christine Milne could understand this).

Housing is a major employer, increasing the cost of housing through a carbon tax will cause reduced demand for housing which will cause a reduction in the need for construction materials and workers which will certainly reduce all kinds of emissions and reduce jobs in the sector, the flow on effect will cause further job losses in other sectors, the good news though is that this will reduce emissions further.

I suppose this is ok given the Labor/Green government intends to use the carbon tax as a mechanism to redistribute the wealth, we can only hope it comes in time to stop the economic refugees (those forced out of the workforce) it creates from going hungry. That is of course after they have paid sufficient dividends from the Australian carbon tax to the "developing world", you know the people that are going to also take our jobs and have higher living standards. A good cause indeed.

The eventual upshot of this polution reduction scheme, reduce the amount of carbon dioxide (what we breath out) in the atmosphere. Interesting plan... 2 parts of oxygen (what we breathe in), 1 part carbon. Oxygen is good, carbon is bad right? Am I missing something? Seeing as though trees need carbon dioxide, and we need oxygen I figure we should tax the trees, they are the ones addicted to this evil CO2. Its like how we tax smokers.

Gillard/Swan/Brown - you have hurt the Australian people enough, leave now.

Matthew C 12/04/11 12:56 AM Report Abuse

In Short the two most ignorant statements (or well executed and deployed Labor spin) I hear thrown out by life long Labor voters:

1. So even if we are small and say climate change might not be real... if there is something we can do about it shouldn't we do it anyway, just in case?

Answer - No

2. Both sides of politics are the same now days right?

Answer - No

Liberals believe in small government and the power of the individual. Labor do not, they think they know what is best for all of us and that they are responsible to medle in our private lives. Given their track record... I think not.

Gillard was right about one thing though, A good government lost its way, that happened the day Kevin Rudd became PM and its been down hill from there.

Bill Northwood 12/04/11 06:04 AM Report Abuse

I agree with you Mathew C, the argument from some that we "need to be seen to be doing something" as it's the "right thing to do" even though it will have no real effect on the planet is just left wing clap trap.

alex 12/04/11 06:15 AM Report Abuse

we can debat for ever, but whos going to stop this tax come on people

Jeff 12/04/11 01:43 PM Report Abuse

I agree with Alex

THE CONSUMER WILL Ultimately pay it is just another GST (re branded)

But is the carbon prices the real solution to the problem, it is concerning
"[we] need to be seen to be doing something" without really achieving.

Did anyone pick up the Lie from Penny Wong last nite on Qanda, she implied that
in the last election Australia voted labor into government, which was the basically agreeing to the ETS policy. Penny, your party has told so many lies you dont know what is truth, the three independants got labor over the line; had an equal chance.
And the fogging techinque of Julia as already spoken about the big lie (we wont hear more about it).

I love Carbon Tax 12/04/11 09:33 PM Report Abuse

This is bullshit
cheers Julia!!

Matthew C 13/04/11 01:09 PM Report Abuse

I Love Carbon Tax, is a classic example of the sort of individual that supports a carbon tax, and will probably derive a net benefit from the wealth redistribution excersize.

The sort of people that make me want to take my business to another country and keep the spoils of my labour/risk/investment. I do not want to share with people who do not get out of their own way, and you can not force me to want to. Last one out of the Australian economy turn off the lights. (this will definantly reduce carbon emissions).

Lets see how the mass exoduss of investment, opportunity and jobs effect "Your Rights At Work".

Gillard/Swan/Brown - Out NOW!!!

KDE 14/04/11 09:07 PM Report Abuse

We are on the cusp of a precipice ......
Tony Windsor is starting to falter ......
Madam Ranga will not last the term ....
ALP have alienated themselves from 90% of the population .....
PLEASE .. lets go back to the polls....

Darcy 15/04/11 10:06 AM Report Abuse

Please let us have an early election!! I cant believe this wonderful country is being run by these dodgy people. How clever to make up for all the wasted and lost money in the name of the environment. How convenient!!
There will be no change to the environment at all, only a new tax on us Australians.
The tax wont encourage big businesses to invest into green energy, they will just pass the cost onto us. And emissions will continue in other countries!

Darcy 15/04/11 10:11 AM Report Abuse

PS Matthew C, love your comment!!!!!! :) 'Last one out of the Australian economy turn off the lights' and 'Lets see how the mass exoduss of investment, opportunity and jobs effect "Your Rights At Work".
So true!!!

KDE 15/04/11 11:35 AM Report Abuse

It was called "Global Warming"
..... but the earth was actually cooling ....
So now it's "Climate Change"....

Carbon Dioxide .... they are calling it "Pollution" ...
But is it? ....
I was always taught humans breathe in oxygen ... breathe out Carbon Dioxide ...
Plants breathe in Carbon Dioxide ... breathe out Oxygen .....

This is just a total con job .....
The enviroment has nothing to do with this tax ....
It's all about trying to gather the cash so Swan can say .. Look at me .... a surplus as promised ... what a joke ...

Dallas Beaufort 15/04/11 08:50 PM Report Abuse

Let's play spot the nimby

R.C 18/04/11 10:47 PM Report Abuse

I can certainly see both sides of the argument. However I believe we must do something NOW to reduce demand for carbon if we want a FUTURE. Sure the short term effects can be quite devastating with lower purchasing power and almost a guaranteed increase in unemployment, however the long term effects are sure to be beneficial as we see sustained growth and use of our resources.

I don't feel it is right to backlash on Ms. Gillard, what she has done by I suppose 'trampling our trust' was really just what any politician would do. She has our countries best interests in mind. And furthermore, it is not fair for Ms. Gillard to take the wrap for everything, she is just the face of one very strong and high volumed government.

KDE 19/04/11 12:05 AM Report Abuse

Take a look at Tim Wilsons opinion ...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/totting-up-carbon-tax-is-anyting-but-a-piece-of-cake/comments-e6frg6zo-1226040594836

Gillard has promised 50% to homes ....
Combet promised 10% to UN ....
that leaves 40% ....
It will cost an absolute fortune to run the scheme...... all new civil servants ...

mmm not going to be much left for business....

And all for what??? what emmision savings will we have?
VERY LITTLE....
As China produces about 50 new Coal Powered Power stations a year???

KDE

Lyn 19/04/11 01:28 AM Report Abuse

I JUST SENT OUR ILLUSTRIOUS TREASURER, WAYNE SWAN AN EMAIL......IT WILL BE VERY INTERESTING IF HE REPLIES TO ME WITH A DECENT ANSWER. HERE'S MY LETTER:

To the Treasurer

Dear Mr Swan,

My husband and I are self funded retirees with an annual pension of $36,000 per annum. We, along with countless other self funded retirees are very worried about the looming Carbon Tax. Because our pension drawdowns are are not taxed, your government will not be able to compsenate our group through Tax cuts. How does Labor plan to compensate self funded retirees??? Who I might add, are just slightly better off than our pensioner counterparts. We as a group we recieved no government stimulus monies after the GFC....are we to be forgotten again??

Kind regards,
Lynette

Is anybody else a self funded retiree with the same concerns???

MAtthew C 19/04/11 10:17 AM Report Abuse

Hi Lyn,

Labor only govern for a certain group of Australians. Even their rhetoric never mentions all Australians. If you do not fit into that group, they view you as citizens of another more prosperous country, so much so they feel imposing their leftist agenda's on you and your hard earned perceived prosperity is a great idea.

Wayne Swan, who is a goose of the highest order, understands your concerns, he just does not care, he is locked in an out of date class strugle, in which all business owners, professionals, property owners and self funded retirees are the enemy. The deep pockets of the nation.

I am not rich, but I own a business and a property, I pay some of my staff more than I get. I employ 10 people and have clients all over the country. I started the company with very little capital and have built it up over 8 years. Only to have these fools put it at risk for me. So much for innovation and reward for risk/effort.

Swan is a bad joke, he is lucky Bob Brown is also prominent now as Bob makes Wayne look good.

Good luck Lyn, I hope you get through.

Matthew C

Keith Zhao 21/04/11 12:32 PM Report Abuse

This country is lucky that we are not fiery and hot-headed like the populace in other countries. If we were not so apathetic there would be riots on the streets, buldings burning, cars over-turned, and general mayhem. Howevert, we are Australians who donot follow politics closely enough and vote for the best bull-duster at election time ..."she'll be right".

Right or wrong (some) people voted for RUDD, they didn't vote for GILLARD. The back-stabber should not be in power. The voting system needs to be overhauled. Do away with compulsory (moron) voting and the preferences system. Labour did not win the election!

Kevin Hicks 25/04/11 03:00 PM Report Abuse

The Australian Tea Party is supporting CATA in the fight against the NBN, The Carbon Tax and a dysfunctional Labor Government. Please SUPPORT the next important rally

Sunday 15th May 2011 Port Macquarie Venue TBA Time: 1pm

ROB, LISTEN TO YOUR ELECTORATE, NO MANDATE, NO CARBON TAX RALLY
Book your bus tickets early to ensure you have a seat on the 'convoy' to Rob Oakeshott's Electorate town of Port Macquarie. Coaches depart Central, Parramatta, Penrith, Campbelltown, Sutherland, Hornsby, Northern Beaches, Gosford and Newcastle. Book seats by email cata@hotmail.com.au.

Elizabeth Reid 29/04/11 08:42 PM Report Abuse

I have to agree with others who have eluded to the naivety of many of you who think Tony Abbott is some sort of magician, making unrealistic promises such as offering solutions for reducing carbon emissions without increasing everyday costs to Australians, as he states himself their plans of, “tackling climate change, without pushing up electricity prices”. That’s a blatant lie. If you actually read the Coalition’s “Direct Action Plan for Environment and Climate change”, It mentions an “emissions reduction fund”, which requires 800 million dollars over the next two years. Where do you think this money will come from, apparently not from the major emitters, but instead the tax payers! Why should high emitting industry not have to pay for polluting?? There’s no way that Australians won’t feel the pinch in some way or another, so why let them get off scot free!! The Coalition’s fund aims at providing incentives for coal fired electricity generators (the largest source of base load electricity in Australia) to reduce emissions. I wonder what the Coalition means by incentives? Ultimately if these power generators are encouraged to emit less, it means less income for the industry and therefore higher costs in electricity for us!! Another suggestion made is to modify current facilities through new technology to reduce polluting, this is also a very expensive and a non immediate process. I understand concern about spending an extra $30 or so a week on, but there will be more for us to worry about if there’s no planet left! At least with a carbon tax, it’s more black and white where the costs will be felt, Tony is just hiding, or at least glossing over where the costs will appear for now, that is until he is elected, just like all other politicians?? They have to say what people want to hear in order to get into power, its not rocket science! Do I also need to mention that up until recently, Tony didn’t even believe climate change, now he has developed policies mitigating it?? Climate change IS happening, it DOES need addressing and soon. The science is there to prove it, have a look sources such as the CSIRO website, Professor Garnaut, or even easier, watch the news!! People who choose to bury their heads in the sand on this issue are foolish!

Kevin Hicks 29/04/11 09:08 PM Report Abuse

On the IPCC panel, the expert opinions these panels revere are from a majority of economists and mathematicians, rather than scientists, any person that once may have been a expert on this Panel are working for an organisation that has a decided interest in man-made climate change.
The experts I quote are qualified scientists and not working for any self interest groups.

Prof Robert Carter Ph.D., University of Cambridge, Palaeontology, 1968. B.Sc. (Hons), University of Otago, Geology, 1963. He is a palaeontologist, stratigrapher, marine geologist and environmental scientist with more than thirty years professional experience.

Richard Siegmund Lindzen (born February 8, 1940, Webster, Massachusetts) is an American atmospheric physicist and Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Lindzen is known for his work in the dynamics of the middle atmosphere, atmospheric tides and ozone photochemistry. He has published more than 200 scientific papers and books. He was a lead author of Chapter 7, 'Physical Climate Processes and Feedbacks,' of the IPCC Third Assessment Report on climate change. He is a well known skeptic of global warming and critic of what he states are political pressures on climate scientists to conform to what he has called climate alarmism.

He was a lead author on Chapter 7 of the IPCC TAR, published in 2001. Subsequently, in May 2001, he was critical of the Summary for Policymakers, which he said "misrepresents what scientists say" and "Exaggerates scientific accuracy and certainty". He also said that the IPCC encourages misuse of the Summary, and that the Summary does not reflect the full document, and that the final version was modified from the draft in a way to exaggerate man-made warming (all of these comments refer to the 2001 TAR, but as we have seen on these pages, are equally applicable to the 2007 AR4). Lindzen played no part in the writing of AR4.

Professor Nir Shaviv is a member of the Racah Insitute of Physics at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. His research interests cover a wide range of topics in astrophysics. ...His studies on the possible relationships between cosmic ray intensity and the Earth’s climate, and the Milky Way’s Spiral Arms and Ice Age Epochs on Earth were widely echoed in the scientific literature.

Professor Vincent Courtillot is professor of geophysics at the University of Paris Diderot and Director of the Institut de Physique du Globe in Paris. He is past president of the European Union of Geosciences and currently chairs the scientific council of the City of Paris.

Professor Freeman Dyson FRS, a world-renowned theoretical physicist, is Professor Emeritus at the Institute of Advanced Study in Princeton where he held a chair for many years. He is the author of numerous widely read science books.
Professor William Happer is a physicist who has specialised in the study of optics and spectros-copy. He is the Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics at Princeton University.

Professor Henrik Svensmark is the head of the Centre for Sun-Climate Research, at DTU Space, Technical University of Denmark.

Professor Willie Wei-Hock Soon is an astrophysicist at the Solar and Stellar Physics Division of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics.
Professor David Henderson was formerly Head of the Economics and Statistics Department of the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) in Paris. He is currently a Fellow of the Institute of Economic Affairs in London.

Professor John Christy is Professor of Atmospheric Science and Director of the Earth System Science Center at the University of Alabama in Huntsville. In 1989 Christy and Dr. Roy W. Spencer, a NASA/Marshall scientist, developed a global temperature data set from microwave data observed from satellites beginning in 1979. For this achievement, the Spencer-Christy team was awarded NASA’s Medal for Exceptional Scientific Achievement in 1991.

Roy W. Spencer received his Ph.D. in meteorology at the University of Wisconsin-Madison in 1981. Before becoming a Principal Research Scientist at the University of Alabama in Huntsville in 2001, he was a Senior Scientist for Climate Studies at NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center, where he and Dr. John Christy received NASA’s Exceptional Scientific Achievement Medal for their global temperature monitoring work with satellites.

Professor Anthony Kelly, CBE, FRS is Emeritus Professor of Materials Science and presently Distinguished Research Fellow, Department of Materials Science, University of Cambridge, U.K. He was Vice-Chancellor of the University of Surrey from 1975 until 1994.

Professor Ross McKitrick joined the Department of Economics at the University of Guelph in 1996. He received a BA in economics from Queen’s University and an MA (1990) and PhD (1996) from UBC. His main area of interest is environmental economics. He is currently working on projects relating to state-contingent environmental policy, econometric methods for measuring global warming, and evaluation of climate models. Journals in which he has published include the Journal of Environmental Economics and Management, Geophysical Research Letters, Energy Journal, Empirical Economics, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences and Canadian Journal of Economics.

David Deming, geology professor at the University of Oklahoma: "The amount of climatic warming that has taken place in the past 150 years is poorly constrained, and its cause – human or natural – is unknown. There is no sound scientific basis for predicting future climate change with any degree of certainty. If the climate does warm, it is likely to be beneficial to humanity rather than harmful. In my opinion, it would be foolish to establish national energy policy on the basis of misinformation and irrational hysteria

John T Everett is an expert in fisheries and the oceans. He worked for the IPCC until 2000. In a statement to the US House of Representatives in 2007 he called for "a reality check" and said that "Warming is not a big deal and is not a bad thing". He has written a web site climatechangefacts.info that is highly critical of the IPCC.
Tom Segalstad is a geologist and former IPCC expert reviewer. He also has a web site highly critical of the IPCC and climate alarmism.

Hans von Storch was a lead author in the Third Assessment Report (2001). In 2004 he published a paper that was critical of the "hockey stick" picture that was prominent in the TAR. He volunteered to act as a lead author in AR4, but was not chosen. He has been quite outspoken in his criticism of the IPCC: "IPCC authors have decided to violate the mission of the IPCC, by presenting disinformation".

Roger Pielke is an atmospheric scientist with over 300 publications. He was invited to write as a coauthor for the second IPCC report (1995), but his comments were ignored, so he resigned from "this clearly biased assessment process" and was not invited to take part in the 3rd or 4th reports. See his comments for the IAC Review.

CO2 = 0.038% of Air. Humans produce only 3%. As a decimal it is a miniscule 0.001% of the air. All of mankind produces only one molecule of CO2 in around every 90,000 air molecules!

Man-made CO2 is 1% of the 0.001% of CO2. As a decimal it is an insignificant 0.00001% of the air. Taxing CO2 achieves nothing for the environment; in fact, it deprives real environmental issues from receiving funds. A carbon tax will have a disastrous impact on lower and middle income earners, and is hurting higher income earners once again. CO2 is actually a life accelerant and not a toxic gas and all man-made CO2 produces 1/1000 of a particulate.

Paleoclimatologist and earth sciences professor at USC, Lowell Stott, released findings of a study in September of 2007, which concluded that, “Deep-sea temperatures warmed about 1,300 years before the tropical surface ocean and well before the rise in the atmospheric CO2” at the ending of the last ice age, which “would indicate the rise in greenhouse gas was a result of warming,” not the cause of warming.

As well as this, an ice core sample of air bubbles in 2003, “revealed a precise record of atmospheric greenhouse gas concentrations” and concluded that, “the CO increase lagged Antarctic deglacial warming by 800 +/- 200 years and preceded the Northern Hemisphere deglaciation.” Simply put, the analysis of the ice core samples, published in Science Magazine, reported that CO2 increases were a long way behind temperature increases by roughly 800 years.

We hear of “greenhouse gases” as being bad things. Yet, the largest greenhouse gas of all is water vapor. Carbon dioxide follows, with methane, nitrous oxide, ozone and many smaller gases. Water vapor is by far the largest greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, apparently making up a much greater percentage than the gases that follow it.

CO2, or Carbon Dioxide, is produced by all plants, animals, fungi and microorganisms, and it is then absorbed by plants. As people breathe in oxygen, we then breathe out carbon dioxide, plants take it in through photosynthesis, and thusly emit oxygen for us to breathe in.

Carbon dioxide cannot be classified as a toxin. In fact, it is basically a life accelerant. Recent research has shown that “shifts in rainfall patterns, cloud cover, and warming temperatures triggered a 6 percent increase in the amount of carbon stored in trees, grass, shrubs, and flowers,” in particular in the Amazon rain forests, which saw the greatest growth rates in the world. The study, conducted from 1982 to 1999, showed that “global climate change has eased climatic constraints on plant life around the globe, allowing vegetation to increase 6 percent.” Vegetation was taking in increasing amounts of CO2 in North America between 1982 and 1998, and “increased atmospheric CO2 and climate change are the primary causes of the recent U.S. vegetation increases.”

A NASA study revealed in 2001, that, “when the atmosphere gets hazy, like it did after the eruption of Mt. Pinatubo in the Philippines in June 1991, plants photosynthesise more efficiently, thereby absorbing more carbon dioxide from the atmosphere,” as volcanoes emit massive amounts of CO2 during an eruption. Another study conducted in 2006 revealed that, “Diversity increases as the planet warms and decreases as it cools,” yet, deforestation can reverse this effect, simulating the effects of a global cooling trend.

In 2007, another study revealed that as icebergs break off from Antarctica, some as large as a dozen miles across – are having a major impact on the ecology of the ocean around them, serving as ‘hotspots’ for ocean life, with thriving communities of seabirds above and a web of phytoplankton, krill, and fish below, and that the icebergs “can serve as a route for carbon dioxide drawdown” as it sinks into the sea.

In 2002, it was reported that, “The southern Saharan desert is in retreat, making farming viable again in what were some of the most arid parts of Africa,” and that, “dunes are retreating right across the Sahel region on the southern edge of the Sahara desert. Vegetation is burying sand across a large section of land stretching from Mauritania on the shores of the Atlantic to Eritrea 6000 kilometers away on the Red Sea coast,” which was largely attributed to increases in rainfall. A scientific study conducted in the Netherlands predicted that global warming “could significantly increase rainfall in Saharan Africa within a few decades, potentially ending the severe droughts that have devastated the region,” which could in effect cause a “greening of the Sahara.”

If CO2 increases lag behind the temperature increases, it does not make sense that CO2 can be the cause of temperature increases. It would be the equivalent of saying that growing older is caused by your hair going grey; there appears to be a cause and effect relationship, it is vitally important to understand which is the cause and which is the effect.

So, from here we must examine what some of the major causes of climatic change can be.

The most important factor in climatic changes is what is called solar variations. This refers to radiation emitted from the Sun and its variations, in particular, the sunspot cycle. Sunspot cycles are the irregular rises and drops in the number of sunspots, which are regions on the Sun’s surface, which have lower temperatures than its surrounding area and strong magnetic fields. The cycles tend to last 11 years.
National Geographic News quoted a scientist in 2007 that, “Simultaneous warming on Earth and Mars suggests that our planet's recent climate changes have a natural—and not a human-induced—cause.” Mars’ ice caps had been diminishing for three years in a row, and the scientist, “Habibullo Abdussamatov, head of space research at St. Petersburg's Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory in Russia, says the Mars data is evidence that the current global warming on Earth is being caused by changes in the sun.”

He further stated that, “changes in the sun's heat output can account for almost all the climate changes we see on both planets.” A NASA study in the same year also reported that Mars warmed since the 1970s, “similar to the warming experienced on Earth over approximately the same period,” which, they conclude, “suggests rapid changes in planetary climates could be natural phenomena.” A study in 2007 on climatic changes on Earth and Neptune suggested that, “some planetary climate changes may be due to variations in the solar system environment.”

In March of 2008, NPR reported that after a survey of the ocean by 3,000 scientific robots, information was retrieved that showed that, “the oceans have not warmed up at all over the past four or five years. That could mean global warming has taken a breather.” The article quotes a NASA scientist as saying that, “the oceans are what really matter when it comes to global warming.”

There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gasses is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate. Moreover, there is substantial scientific evidence that increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments of the Earth.” A Petition to this effect was signed by over 31,000 American scientists. http://www.oism.org/pproject/

I would suggest they are basing their information on biased reporting and in particular on information formulated by those with an interest in using this as a measure to raise taxes for Governments, rather than a true scientific rationale.
Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide

A review of the research literature concerning the environmental consequences of increased levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide leads to the conclusion that increases during the 20th Century have produced no deleterious effects upon global weather, climate, or temperature. Increased carbon dioxide has, however, markedly increased plant growth rates. Predictions of harmful climatic effects due to future increases in minor greenhouse gases like CO2 are in error and do not conform to current experimental knowledge.

Of course there is still one scenario, no one has come up with, and that is we are just coming out of a Global Cooling cycle, and the reason for a slightly elevated CO2 level is nature’s way of increasing our temperature back to a acceptable level, as deemed by nature itself.

alex 30/04/11 08:58 AM Report Abuse

good morning australia, or should l say good morning taxtralia! which way are we heading , like northern ireland, and we know how they ended up, so much tax, so much rights, and at the end zero? or are wanting to be like cuba? and for record carbon emissions , what are we 20 million , whats china , india, and the u.s.a who has the heaviest industry, are we the main player? what a joke, so are these other countries going to go carbon? so do we realy think that china is going to take notice to the west! ha! what joke, this is there war against the west. just like what the greeks did to the romans, they starved them on trade and knowledge and there money. then they were the only player, knowledge is power, and trade is theres, and cash is king. we all depend on china, so lets force them to comply, hey australians wait for the bird! e.g the finger

anna 12/05/11 10:57 AM Report Abuse

alex and everyone else, it doesn't matter how many we are, 20 million or 20 billion. when fighting climate change, there's no nation limits. every industry and person, individually in china or in australia, is doing relatively the same bad. and we all need to change. we're all screwed up in this planet, fellow. each and single individual must do a bit. you talk about china and india, where people are miserable. there's no miserable people in australia. you won't die if you pay a bit more. do your bit, don't be selfish. fight against what happening in the third world. australia as a nation has no problems at all.

Kevin Hicks 12/05/11 11:22 AM Report Abuse

On the IPCC panel, the expert opinions these panels revere are from a majority of economists and mathematicians, rather than scientists, any person that once may have been a expert on this Panel are working for an organisation that has a decided interest in man-made climate change.
The experts I quote are qualified scientists and not working for any self interest groups.

Prof Robert Carter Ph.D., University of Cambridge, Palaeontology, 1968. B.Sc. (Hons), University of Otago, Geology, 1963. He is a palaeontologist, stratigrapher, marine geologist and environmental scientist with more than thirty years professional experience.
Richard Siegmund Lindzen (born February 8, 1940, Webster, Massachusetts) is an American atmospheric physicist and Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Lindzen is known for his work in the dynamics of the middle atmosphere, atmospheric tides and ozone photochemistry. He has published more than 200 scientific papers and books. He was a lead author of Chapter 7, 'Physical Climate Processes and Feedbacks,' of the IPCC Third Assessment Report on climate change. He is a well known skeptic of global warming and critic of what he states are political pressures on climate scientists to conform to what he has called climate alarmism.
He was a lead author on Chapter 7 of the IPCC TAR, published in 2001. Subsequently, in May 2001, he was critical of the Summary for Policymakers, which he said "misrepresents what scientists say" and "Exaggerates scientific accuracy and certainty". He also said that the IPCC encourages misuse of the Summary, and that the Summary does not reflect the full document, and that the final version was modified from the draft in a way to exaggerate man-made warming (all of these comments refer to the 2001 TAR, but as we have seen on these pages, are equally applicable to the 2007 AR4). Lindzen played no part in the writing of AR4.
Professor Nir Shaviv is a member of the Racah Insitute of Physics at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. His research interests cover a wide range of topics in astrophysics. ...His studies on the possible relationships between cosmic ray intensity and the Earth’s climate, and the Milky Way’s Spiral Arms and Ice Age Epochs on Earth were widely echoed in the scientific literature.
Professor Vincent Courtillot is professor of geophysics at the University of Paris Diderot and Director of the Institut de Physique du Globe in Paris. He is past president of the European Union of Geosciences and currently chairs the scientific council of the City of Paris.
Professor Freeman Dyson FRS, a world-renowned theoretical physicist, is Professor Emeritus at the Institute of Advanced Study in Princeton where he held a chair for many years. He is the author of numerous widely read science books.
Professor William Happer is a physicist who has specialised in the study of optics and spectros-copy. He is the Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics at Princeton University.
Professor Henrik Svensmark is the head of the Centre for Sun-Climate Research, at DTU Space, Technical University of Denmark.
Professor Willie Wei-Hock Soon is an astrophysicist at the Solar and Stellar Physics Division of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics.
Professor David Henderson was formerly Head of the Economics and Statistics Department of the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) in Paris. He is currently a Fellow of the Institute of Economic Affairs in London.
Professor John Christy is Professor of Atmospheric Science and Director of the Earth System Science Center at the University of Alabama in Huntsville. In 1989 Christy and Dr. Roy W. Spencer, a NASA/Marshall scientist, developed a global temperature data set from microwave data observed from satellites beginning in 1979. For this achievement, the Spencer-Christy team was awarded NASA’s Medal for Exceptional Scientific Achievement in 1991.
Roy W. Spencer received his Ph.D. in meteorology at the University of Wisconsin-Madison in 1981. Before becoming a Principal Research Scientist at the University of Alabama in Huntsville in 2001, he was a Senior Scientist for Climate Studies at NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center, where he and Dr. John Christy received NASA’s Exceptional Scientific Achievement Medal for their global temperature monitoring work with satellites.
Professor Anthony Kelly, CBE, FRS is Emeritus Professor of Materials Science and presently Distinguished Research Fellow, Department of Materials Science, University of Cambridge, U.K. He was Vice-Chancellor of the University of Surrey from 1975 until 1994.
Professor Ross McKitrick joined the Department of Economics at the University of Guelph in 1996. He received a BA in economics from Queen’s University and an MA (1990) and PhD (1996) from UBC. His main area of interest is environmental economics. He is currently working on projects relating to state-contingent environmental policy, econometric methods for measuring global warming, and evaluation of climate models. Journals in which he has published include the Journal of Environmental Economics and Management, Geophysical Research Letters, Energy Journal, Empirical Economics, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences and Canadian Journal of Economics.
David Deming, geology professor at the University of Oklahoma: "The amount of climatic warming that has taken place in the past 150 years is poorly constrained, and its cause – human or natural – is unknown. There is no sound scientific basis for predicting future climate change with any degree of certainty. If the climate does warm, it is likely to be beneficial to humanity rather than harmful. In my opinion, it would be foolish to establish national energy policy on the basis of misinformation and irrational hysteria
John T Everett is an expert in fisheries and the oceans. He worked for the IPCC until 2000. In a statement to the US House of Representatives in 2007 he called for "a reality check" and said that "Warming is not a big deal and is not a bad thing". He has written a web site climatechangefacts.info that is highly critical of the IPCC.
Tom Segalstad is a geologist and former IPCC expert reviewer. He also has a web site highly critical of the IPCC and climate alarmism.
Hans von Storch was a lead author in the Third Assessment Report (2001). In 2004 he published a paper that was critical of the "hockey stick" picture that was prominent in the TAR. He volunteered to act as a lead author in AR4, but was not chosen. He has been quite outspoken in his criticism of the IPCC: "IPCC authors have decided to violate the mission of the IPCC, by presenting disinformation".
Roger Pielke is an atmospheric scientist with over 300 publications. He was invited to write as a coauthor for the second IPCC report (1995), but his comments were ignored, so he resigned from "this clearly biased assessment process" and was not invited to take part in the 3rd or 4th reports. See his comments for the IAC Review.

CO2 = 0.038% of Air. Humans produce only 3%. As a decimal it is a miniscule 0.001% of the air. All of mankind produces only one molecule of CO2 in around every 90,000 air molecules!
Man-made CO2 is 1% of the 0.001% of CO2. As a decimal it is an insignificant 0.00001% of the air. Taxing CO2 achieves nothing for the environment; in fact, it deprives real environmental issues from receiving funds. A carbon tax will have a disastrous impact on lower and middle income earners, and is hurting higher income earners once again. CO2 is actually a life accelerant and not a toxic gas and all man-made CO2 produces 1/1000 of a particulate.
Paleoclimatologist and earth sciences professor at USC, Lowell Stott, released findings of a study in September of 2007, which concluded that, “Deep-sea temperatures warmed about 1,300 years before the tropical surface ocean and well before the rise in the atmospheric CO2” at the ending of the last ice age, which “would indicate the rise in greenhouse gas was a result of warming,” not the cause of warming.
As well as this, an ice core sample of air bubbles in 2003, “revealed a precise record of atmospheric greenhouse gas concentrations” and concluded that, “the CO increase lagged Antarctic deglacial warming by 800 +/- 200 years and preceded the Northern Hemisphere deglaciation.” Simply put, the analysis of the ice core samples, published in Science Magazine, reported that CO2 increases were a long way behind temperature increases by roughly 800 years.
We hear of “greenhouse gases” as being bad things. Yet, the largest greenhouse gas of all is water vapor. Carbon dioxide follows, with methane, nitrous oxide, ozone and many smaller gases. Water vapor is by far the largest greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, apparently making up a much greater percentage than the gases that follow it.
CO2, or Carbon Dioxide, is produced by all plants, animals, fungi and microorganisms, and it is then absorbed by plants. As people breathe in oxygen, we then breathe out carbon dioxide, plants take it in through photosynthesis, and thusly emit oxygen for us to breathe in.
Carbon dioxide cannot be classified as a toxin. In fact, it is basically a life accelerant. Recent research has shown that “shifts in rainfall patterns, cloud cover, and warming temperatures triggered a 6 percent increase in the amount of carbon stored in trees, grass, shrubs, and flowers,” in particular in the Amazon rain forests, which saw the greatest growth rates in the world. The study, conducted from 1982 to 1999, showed that “global climate change has eased climatic constraints on plant life around the globe, allowing vegetation to increase 6 percent.” Vegetation was taking in increasing amounts of CO2 in North America between 1982 and 1998, and “increased atmospheric CO2 and climate change are the primary causes of the recent U.S. vegetation increases.”
A NASA study revealed in 2001, that, “when the atmosphere gets hazy, like it did after the eruption of Mt. Pinatubo in the Philippines in June 1991, plants photosynthesize more efficiently, thereby absorbing more carbon dioxide from the atmosphere,” as volcanoes emit massive amounts of CO2 during an eruption. Another study conducted in 2006 revealed that, “Diversity increases as the planet warms and decreases as it cools,” yet, deforestation can reverse this effect, simulating the effects of a global cooling trend.
In 2007, another study revealed that as icebergs break off from Antarctica, some as large as a dozen miles across – are having a major impact on the ecology of the ocean around them, serving as ‘hotspots’ for ocean life, with thriving communities of seabirds above and a web of phytoplankton, krill, and fish below, and that the icebergs “can serve as a route for carbon dioxide drawdown” as it sinks into the sea.
In 2002, it was reported that, “The southern Saharan desert is in retreat, making farming viable again in what were some of the most arid parts of Africa,” and that, “dunes are retreating right across the Sahel region on the southern edge of the Sahara desert. Vegetation is burying sand across a large section of land stretching from Mauritania on the shores of the Atlantic to Eritrea 6000 kilometers away on the Red Sea coast,” which was largely attributed to increases in rainfall. A scientific study conducted in the Netherlands predicted that global warming “could significantly increase rainfall in Saharan Africa within a few decades, potentially ending the severe droughts that have devastated the region,” which could in effect cause a “greening of the Sahara.”
If CO2 increases lag behind the temperature increases, it does not make sense that CO2 can be the cause of temperature increases. It would be the equivalent of saying that growing older is caused by your hair going grey; there appears to be a cause and effect relationship, it is vitally important to understand which is the cause and which is the effect.
So, from here we must examine what some of the major causes of climatic change can be.
The most important factor in climatic changes is what is called solar variations. This refers to radiation emitted from the Sun and its variations, in particular, the sunspot cycle. Sunspot cycles are the irregular rises and drops in the number of sunspots, which are regions on the Sun’s surface, which have lower temperatures than its surrounding area and strong magnetic fields. The cycles tend to last 11 years.
National Geographic News quoted a scientist in 2007 that, “Simultaneous warming on Earth and Mars suggests that our planet's recent climate changes have a natural—and not a human-induced—cause.” Mars’ ice caps had been diminishing for three years in a row, and the scientist, “Habibullo Abdussamatov, head of space research at St. Petersburg's Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory in Russia, says the Mars data is evidence that the current global warming on Earth is being caused by changes in the sun.”
He further stated that, “changes in the sun's heat output can account for almost all the climate changes we see on both planets.” A NASA study in the same year also reported that Mars warmed since the 1970s, “similar to the warming experienced on Earth over approximately the same period,” which, they conclude, “suggests rapid changes in planetary climates could be natural phenomena.” A study in 2007 on climatic changes on Earth and Neptune suggested that, “some planetary climate changes may be due to variations in the solar system environment.”
In March of 2008, NPR reported that after a survey of the ocean by 3,000 scientific robots, information was retrieved that showed that, “the oceans have not warmed up at all over the past four or five years. That could mean global warming has taken a breather.” The article quotes a NASA scientist as saying that, “the oceans are what really matter when it comes to global warming.”
There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gasses is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate. Moreover, there is substantial scientific evidence that increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments of the Earth.” A Petition to this effect was signed by over 31,000 American scientists. http://www.oism.org/pproject/

I would suggest they are basing their information on biased reporting and in particular on information formulated by those with an interest in using this as a measure to raise taxes for Governments, rather than a true scientific rationale.
Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide
A review of the research literature concerning the environmental consequences of increased levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide leads to the conclusion that increases during the 20th Century have produced no deleterious effects upon global weather, climate, or temperature. Increased carbon dioxide has, however, markedly increased plant growth rates. Predictions of harmful climatic effects due to future increases in minor greenhouse gases like CO2 are in error and do not conform to current experimental knowledge.
Of course there is still one scenario, no one has come up with, and that is we are just coming out of a Global Cooling cycle, and the reason for a slightly elevated CO2 level is nature’s way of increasing our temperature back to a acceptable level, as deemed by nature itself.

Gabriel 12/05/11 12:00 PM Report Abuse

Kevin, we don't need scientific theories and professors and thesis for the obvious and clear. I don't need robots to tell if it's cold or hot, if there's a glacier melting or not, if there's a smaller lake here or not, a bigger desert there or not. Everything is happening in front of our eyes, massive changes in only a few decades.

GLOBAL WARMING IS HERE. And it's NOT NATURAL. It IS a consequence of our actions, industries and pollution.

We don't have time for those long and useless arguments (wrong, by the way).

Kevin Hicks 12/05/11 12:12 PM Report Abuse

Gabriel, alarmists are dreamers, if you call this Warming, it was shot years ago and changed to Climate Change, so they could account for the cold as well. The facts are clear that man made climate change just does not exist, and this is not wrong because you say it is, as it is not wrong because an economist claims it.

Any Climate Change is as natural as Sunspot activity and alignments of the Sun and Moon. These have been responsible for our unusual weather patterns. I am afraid your argument is led by paranoia rather than any facts, and unfortunately, your ir-rationale approach was based on assumptions made without all the parameters entered

Matthew C 12/05/11 01:25 PM Report Abuse

Ann and Gabriel are the reason I want to pick up my business which employs 10 Australians, and move it to a country that does not resent the individual, or their achievements. If everyone did this Australia would be a very poor place indeed. The only industry left would be the trade unions, and then they would have to push to pass law to stop people leaving.

I think its time we stop listening to the opinion of social engineers. I am not sure which country Ann lives in, but there are a great many Australians particularly in Sydney and Melbourne who can barely keep up with mortgage and rent payments, who do not fall into the Labor governments relief needed lists because as a household they earn insane amounts of money ($80k - 150k). They do not have the money spare to pay a carbon tax when we have some of the highest costs of living in the world already. Take your do gooding to a country that welcomes social re-engineering like communist China and see how long you last.

RUDD/GILLARD/SWAN you have hurt us enough, its time you take us to an election and see how much the "ordinary Australian" agrees with your leftist ribbish! Climate Change/Wealth Redistribution - The greatest moral and ethical challenge of our time indeed!

LaoK 12/05/11 01:34 PM Report Abuse

FBT - Paul Keating's curse:
"The Federal Government is planning to save up to $950 million over the next four years by implementing a recommendation from the 2009 Henry tax review which aims to stop lease-type salary-sacrificed car owners from clocking up extra kilometres towards the end of the financial year to pay less tax." It happened!

Labour have to finance all of those boat people in detention centres and on welfare, somehow.

Gimme an election. I want one... NOW!

ENOUGH!

One person one vote. Scrap the preferential system.

alex 12/05/11 01:38 PM Report Abuse

hey people we can argue the point forever, but why has taxtralia added another tax come on , its like this lets get the goverment to turn off statilites all phone net work all industry ,call back all our troops and ships and tanks boobs and toys which hey are doing much more damage, but hey taxtralia cant afford to unset off uncle sam cause were there b@#@h, and lets stop feeding drag queen england, lets stop it all ,oh yeah and all power plants that supply power so we can have these dump arguments, lets be the marta of the world and live in the dark, will the rest of the world do it,.?????????? come taxtralia, and a other tax and a other tax, come taxtralias come on lets bend over and let them , just that little a bit more! oh yeah we love it????????????????????

LaoK 12/05/11 01:47 PM Report Abuse

Global Warming!

Yeah right. This peculiar weather has probably been happening for millions of years but we just don't have any records about it.

Fear mongering by the greenies, more like it.

Education of the people is what is required. Not a Carbon Tax.
Most people are turning off lights when not required.

Oh, and by the way. If you ever go to Shanghai, China try taking photographs of the wonderful city lights after 2300 hours (11:00 p.m.). You can't, because they switch them off to conserve energy.


And the pollution in China is not as bad as the Western media portray. They always show archive footage taken on a really bad day to have us believe that China is always like that 365 days of the year.

alex 12/05/11 02:04 PM Report Abuse

taxtralia we love tax , we make so much money that another tax is just oooooooooo.kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk????????????? its not greeks style any more,its taxtralian style and we just love it, give us another and another oh hey ! and slap it , with another tax caused we love it mmmmmmmmmmmmmm ha! what joke

Frederick Van Dorestien 15/05/11 11:52 AM Report Abuse

Universal consensus that climate change is being caused by man or happening at all does not exist. Carbon Credit Trading Schemes are nothing more than the buying and selling of “Air” thus such schemes are corrupt or politically corruptible. When the next financial and economic crisis hits the western world this year the political “Carbon” market will collapse overnight. Such schemes do not address local pollution problems or address R & D funds necessary to fix them. The end result is that the costs of goods and services will dramatically rise for the average person and no technical solutions will emerge to counter pollution (not climate change). The claim that “Green” business will be more efficient than existing business is a fantasy. A good example is the “Green” light bulb – it’s 9 times more expensive and lasts half as long as the current bulbs. Australia is already uncompetitive internationally and being propped up by the mining boom. The Gillard labour government is attempting the same insidious path as the Rudd government did! How do we elect these idiots to the high status and privilege of governing us? What about a simple, focussed Clean Air Act?

alex 15/05/11 01:22 PM Report Abuse

hey every one carbon problem? yeah o.k cars trucks motor bikes, heavy induatry? fuel is the problem yes well let me tell you that , water does burn and very well, any type of water , my trucks love water h2o can become hho very easy clean air , at my cost a very small cost, but hey no one will mention that, can you imagine what would happen if we told britsh petroleum that we have fixed our carbon problem, and thats we dont need there oil, wow imagine! but hey any goverment couldnt live with out there pay outs, so there you are, my trucks are running purly on water l will never tell how its done cause l fear my life.

alex 15/05/11 01:29 PM Report Abuse

hho is more than fuel, in all its realy the beginnings of a super type engine , which the german understood this in the second world war, its realy a 80 year or more invention

alex 15/05/11 01:41 PM Report Abuse

so here we are we can invent things to fix our problems , why are we going back wards in milking the world with theses taxes to fund what,? come on people some here has to stand up , and make a stand , we are so use to belieiving the media and the greens and this goverment and the other heads of the world

Bill Northwood 15/05/11 08:04 PM Report Abuse

Free energy from water? I'm no physicist but I believe the concept violates the first and/or second laws of thermodynamics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water-fuelled_car

alex 16/05/11 06:52 AM Report Abuse

fractur the water and its no longer water, think about it , what is it when that happens, you may debat it as much as you like , but it works and my diesal engines love it , l start it with fuel then l switch it to hydrogen, its a gas , the end emuission is water dripping out the exhust.

alex 16/05/11 07:40 AM Report Abuse

bill spliting the atom was once laugh at, and also cart with out horses, and also the first aeroplanes that were flow by men,and also nepolean laugh at a inventer that stated to him that he has a iron ship driven with out sails, the first steam padel ship, so bill bring me your car and l will covert it to water and then you will drive past service stations and think of them as a thing of the past, e.g a lie, bill dont be so blind, a man that thinks so much is blinded by it. drop me a line and go water free clean power

Bill Northwood 16/05/11 07:41 AM Report Abuse

It's a good concept, all I'm saying is that the energy required to fracture water or break it down into a hydrogen and oxygen requires the same if not more energy than you end up with to power your vehicles. So the real fuel is whatever your using to power the breakdown of water whether that be solar or fossil fuels not the water itself.

I'm not knocking it though, I see it as the power principle of the future, once fossil fuels are no longer in the equation and the Government needs to invest more here so we can lose our dependency on oil.

alex 16/05/11 08:00 AM Report Abuse

no fuel is needed to create it 12 volt is needed ,no solar panells,and all that misleading rubbish that they want us to believe, just water 12 volts, stainless steel , now hydro is heavier than water, getting up and above the water into gas form is the trick, we have spent months on it and goes and harder than any crap fossil fuel, why are we waiting on fossil fuel to run out and be at the mercy of the oil companies, and going back to carbon emissions problem, then why even have this forum , we are trying to stop pollution yes then why wait until fossil fuel runs out, and the mean time we are paying to much at the pump and also to much tax come on bill brother, we need action not just talk.

alex 16/05/11 08:06 AM Report Abuse

bill bring me your car and l will convert for you, no more money for fossil fuel, or do you like buying fossil fuel?

Bill Northwood 16/05/11 08:16 AM Report Abuse

Your engine concept sounds fantastic, like I said I'm not a scientist - I totally agree with your comments about fossil fuels and I can't wait to ditch all reliance on them. Would love to know more about your engine - isn't hydrogen the lightest substance known? Cheers!

alex 16/05/11 10:33 AM Report Abuse

bill when you fracture water with 12 volts running throw it with stainless cells once water is fractured it is hydrogen ,it fizes and drops to bottom of glass meter, its heavier than water, to get gases to raise to top u need air vaccum pipe to go into glass meter to touch bottom cause thats were hho likes to stay, but we need it as a gas so air again pushes up and out ,then striaght into air intake, there is another mix but hey l cant say on net.

Tristan Denby 16/05/11 10:39 AM Report Abuse

I'm 17, still at school, and even i can see that the carbon tax is going to hurt small businesses. If the carbon tax goes ahead, prices of electricity will transferr into the prices of goods and services. Meanwhile, when large businesses, i wont name names, coles, will absorb the prices of the tax, and keep their prices low. This will immediately run small businesses out of competition because they cannot compete. And after running the small businesses out of work, the larger will be able to jack up prices, which ends up hurting the consumer; i.e: every Australian.

Bill Northwood 16/05/11 07:35 PM Report Abuse

Alex, are you sure you're talking about hydrogen gas? It's the lightest of all gasses and during world war 2 the Germans used it to fill Zeppelins which allowed them to fly. If it was heavy as you say, the Zeppelins would never lift off. During chemistry class at high school we'd use electrolysis to do what your saying and the hydrogen would bubble upwards through the water as its much lighter than water or air. I'm confused sorry.

alex 16/05/11 08:01 PM Report Abuse

if l could show you what l mean you would understand, were u using stainless rods and was the current 12 volts and how were u using the current, and how far a part were these rods, and were the rods completelty under water or half in and was your glass becon sealed or open, hho yes ! but from water, heavier just as u fracture it, its a gas once air pushes it to the top , then yes lighter once the air gets it flowing its already in the intake and burning, ddo u know it cuts steel better than a oxy set up the end product is water again after u have cut your metal who needs oxys plazma cutters who needs fossil fuel, two stroke engines run great on it to, efi trucks cars motor bike love it .the iddle changes it smoother and much more horse power

alex 16/05/11 08:15 PM Report Abuse

the mush room cloud is not just a mush room cloud , yes the hydrogen bomb , its somthing no one bothered to look at, its how hydrogen reacts yes the germans and the zeplin it wasnt just the zeplin they were testing , its what was inside the zeplin that was the real experment, two objects flying at the same time, the one inside the zepluin was way out of this world even for now, it got to do with the bell experment, yes the bell engines that ran on hydrogen, that ran and powered their wing and more devison, fossil fuel is not stable enough for air crafts that could and did travel at very high speeds, and the germans clearly understood this

alisha 17/05/11 06:27 PM Report Abuse

In a time full of recession is the government stupid to add more costs to people who cant even find jobs yet? there are immigrants burning down buildings in capitol cities and the gillard government is focusing on set top boxes for pensioners? the carbon tax has been revoked in the UK because it didnt work, it wasnt supported and it didnt make even an inch of difference to the environment. Why does julia gillard suddenly think she can make a difference when she has no australians to support her.

L Costin 17/05/11 07:26 PM Report Abuse

This is a website launched across the country with the help of radio talback host Allan Jones. It is a movement set up by credible scientists and academics who are against blindly introducing a Carbon Tax into this country. They are asking for donations to continue their work. At last we voters do have a voice, and can actually do something to help those trying to stop this utter madness. Can I ask everybody here to spread this website to other blogs they may visit and help pass the word via chat rooms.




http://www.galileomovement.com.au/who_we_are.php

voter 23/05/11 01:03 PM Report Abuse

Global Warming Conspiracy Theory Jesse Ventura http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRuzVbAODHw&feature=related cheek it out don't be taken in by carbon tax its all money making this is going to open your eyes

renee 25/05/11 12:10 PM Report Abuse

i cant believe the prices

alex 25/05/11 12:29 PM Report Abuse

ok we talk and debate forever about the increase in costs , but no one has mentioned who, and how is anybody going to stop this madness, come australia who the hell has the b@##$ to stop the taxation maffia department, hey they and capital theifs in suits, hey lm shore they wear armanie , and kiss there children before they go to school and thinking there doing nothing wrong, legal right and ilegal right, wow this country is joke

L Costin 25/05/11 02:18 PM Report Abuse

Malcolm Turnbull's agenda needs to be exposed: If you are concerned about your future and that of your family you owe it to yourself to read this article and ask yourselves why this TAX is being foisted apon us. It's has NOTHING to do with saving the environment!!


http://barnabyisright.com/2011/05/24/doing-gods-work-turnbull-an-angel-of-death-derivatives/

alex 25/05/11 04:01 PM Report Abuse

here here costin, but who is going to stop the steam roll effect, who, no words but action

Frances Makarova 25/05/11 05:53 PM Report Abuse

Julia Gillard's Carbon Tax Global Warming and destruction of the Great Barrier Reef supposedly caused by Carbon Emissions,

Sunscreens Cause Coral Bleaching by Promoting Viral Infections

Check out this link

http://ehp03.niehs.nih.gov/article/fetchArticle.action?articleURI=info%3Adoi%2F10.1289%2Fehp.10966

excerpt:
"Sunscreens cause the rapid and complete bleaching of hard corals, even at extremely low concentrations. The effect of sunscreens is due to organic ultraviolet filters, which are able to induce the lytic viral cycle in symbiotic zooxanthellae with latent infections.

Conclusions
We conclude that sunscreens, by promoting viral infection, potentially play an important role in coral bleaching in areas prone to high levels of recreational use by humans."

narjeet kaur 29/05/11 03:22 PM Report Abuse

Whats the point putting a carbon tax on Aussies and still exporting coal to other countries where they are going to be producing green house gases anyway. Apparently the whole purpose of introducing carbon tax is to minimize carbon pollution.If u wanna introduce carbon tax than u have to stop the export of coal altogether which i don't think Australia can afford to do since coal mining is the main industry of Australia.
its like potatoes/ potatoes.
Look i feel like this government hates there own people and wanna make there lives even harder.
I PLEAD LIBERAL PARTY TO USE THIS AS ONE OF THERE ARGUMENTS.
How is it that i haven't heard anyone use this as there main arguments.

L Costin 30/05/11 02:39 PM Report Abuse

Narjeet - this is nothing but a wealth distribution mechanism - how many people here realise that $600 million of this Tax will go directly to the UN as a starting point?? That $600 million will rise as the Carbon Tax increases over the decades. The monies to the UN will then be distributed to third world countries. That deal was signed in Cancun by Greg Combet. I bet Jools hasn't told you that yet....and why would she? They are hoping that the peons won't notice. But wait, it gets even grubbier - how many people here realise that Malcolm Turnbull's hide was saved by Goldman-Sachs over his involvment in the collapse of HIH ( Malcolm was an investment banker for Goldman-Sachs) and who in return promised his previous employer to imbrace a Carbon Tax if his nomination in the Liberal Party was accepted? Bet many people don't know that either. Mark my words, we the peons are going to be fleeced bare by these Globalist rats if we allow them. I won't deny that we have a problem with our planet - but this Carbon tax is open to massive rorts of the first order.......and you are right Narjeet, all we will be doing is EXPORTING our emissions to other countries that don't have strict timetables for reducing pollution. In the absence of a global agreement to all move together in the same direction will devestate the Australian economy and destroy our farming sector. Gillard and her moronic smurfs are being willfully deceptive to the Australian people - why would you even trust this bunch?? Everything they have touched has turned to manure.

Frances Makarova 30/05/11 02:56 PM Report Abuse

I have a question. Why has the subject name been changed from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change"? We have always had 'climate change', Australia is noted for Climate Change.

Melbourne is noted as having '4 Seasons in 1 day". That is Climate Change, but why the change in terminology when they are introducing the Carbon Tax? Have they discovered that we do not have Global Warming after all? So they have changed it to "Climate Change", which is non specific for a reason they are unwilling to admit?

Bill Northwood 31/05/11 08:26 AM Report Abuse

I've seen endless debate over this recently but one question that I haven't found an answer to is why Australia has to lead the world in this and put yet another tax on low income earners just so that a few high income earners who will be immune to the economic impacts from a day to day living perspective can be "seen to be doing something"?

If you had a lifeboat that was full yet there were more people in the water, would you keep taking them in just so that you could be seen to be doing something and end up swamping the boat? Or would you make a tough decision and put your passengers first?

Australia needs a leader who can make tough decisions and will put their passengers first rather than trying to lead the world with giant steps which are inversely proportionate to our global footprint.

Frances Makarova 31/05/11 09:59 AM Report Abuse

Oops I accidentally hit the wrong link before and found I had unsubscribed.

Kim 01/06/11 03:07 PM Report Abuse

Agree, please, please fight this. Julia Gillard seems out to destroy the Australian middle class.

We shouldn't be paying carbon tax unless the rest of the world is paying it too.

Please fight this with everything you have.

I registered my opinion with Ms Gillard's office as well and can only hope that enough Australians do this and that she & the Greens - get the message. If the "celebrities" want to pay it, they can!

Bianca 01/06/11 06:23 PM Report Abuse

She lied about a tax which will affect every Australian. If people voted for her because she promised she wouldn't introduce this tax, then these people have been deceived. This tax will drive up the cost of living (which is already too high) beyond belief. All businesses use electricity so we will absorb these costs as consumers from most organisations. The increase in petrol prices will drive up the cost of food and all goods we purchase. Who knows what else will be affected. We are all struggling enough with inflation and the cost of living, how are we to cope with a tax which will drive the cost of EVERYTHING up.

We as Australians deserve to vote on the introduction of a tax which will hugely affect the finances of already struggling people. We voted for someone on the promise that this tax won't be introduced. Now we deserve to vote again as we have been deceived. She got rid of Rudd, now how do we get rid of her?

I WANT AN ELECTION!

tim 05/06/11 09:44 PM Report Abuse

Same amount of emmisions will be produced but we will all be paying more for everything that comes into contact with carbon example trucking our groceries and manufacturing in australia.

All this will do is send more jobs overseas and kill small business in australia.

Once again if an incompetent government cant come up with a real solution they throw a tax on it.

Remember when people used to joke if they could tax the air we breath? O wait?

How many hybrid cars do you see the mp's driving?

Every night i drive past the local centrelink on my way home from work and at 9pm all the lights and tv's and computer screens are all on lit up like an xmas tree and we are all being told we are to blame?

no name 06/06/11 08:07 AM Report Abuse

So this new tax will fund projects to reduce carbon?

Then why are you winding back rebates on projects such as solar and lpg conversions and water tanks.

Seems like we will be paying more and getting less and less each year.

Serena Vanderwoodseon 06/06/11 11:27 AM Report Abuse

i think that carbon tax is a good idea because it will reduce the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.

Cheyanne 06/06/11 11:29 AM Report Abuse

i think that the carbon tax is a good idea we need to try and save our environment and people who just keep ruining the atmosphere by releasing heaps of carbon gases,might actually stop releasing as many with the tax .

Allanah 06/06/11 11:44 AM Report Abuse

i dont think that carbon tax is a good idea. the prices of food and fuel will go up and it is already so high. even though we need to save theenviroment but there hs to be other ideas. people wont have much money and they wont be able to pay for all the stuff that they need.

Frances Makarova 06/06/11 11:49 AM Report Abuse

I have a question for Serena and Cheyanne, exactly how do you expect the Carbon Tax to reduce carbon dioxide in the atmosphere or save the environment? Do you realized that every breath you breathe out is carbon dioxide? Perhaps you would like all the humans and animals wiped out in Australia to reduce carbon in the atmosphere. Does anyone remember the Start Trek The Motion Picture, where the Space Probe 'Voyager' was sent out, and it evolved and returned many years later with the name 'V'Ger. It's goal was to destroy all Carbon Based life forms, i.e., Humans and animals, because that is what we are, Carbon based life forms, including yourselves, unless of course you are aliens. Which makes me wonder about whether or not Julia Gillard is actually a human being, or is she a Visitor determined to destroy us all?

The very land of Australia absorbs all the Carbon which we Carbon based lifeforms, including the animals breathe out., Carbon dioxide is necessary to grow the Trees and Plant life Without Carbon dioxide this earth would perish. As for the 'Green House effect' that is a perfect example of what keeps us all alive, and provides those plants we need to eat. Think about it.

Bree 06/06/11 11:50 AM Report Abuse

Ithink the idea of a carbon tax is a really bad idea. We do need to save our environment but this just isn't the way how to do it. If we get a tax on our carbon that we use our fuel, food and energy. Even simple things like charging your phone or ipod will go up. I think that we should spend more money on planting trees for rehabilitation of the environment.

ren 06/06/11 11:58 AM Report Abuse

frances makarova is gay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and no she is an alien and so are we.

jackson 06/06/11 12:01 PM Report Abuse

hi there people i like it when the big spiders rub their hairy legs together and look scary byee

Bill Northwood 06/06/11 12:09 PM Report Abuse

If carbon dioxide is so detrimental for the environment, why does the Government allow itself and farmers to burn off thousands of hectares of land each year?

Due to the cost of electricity and gas, people are ditching their heaters and turning back to wood heaters by the droves to save money further adding to the air pollution, yet the Governments policies are encouraging the burning of fossil fuels in this regard while now penalising those who've gone solar. Yet we somehow have to put this logic aside and believe that a carbon tax will be good for us.

Not just hypocritical but it sounds like the ability of the population to cope with the financial impact of the proposed carbon tax has been based on the incomes of those who've created it.

Rod Smith ww.rodcsmith.org 06/06/11 07:34 PM Report Abuse

what the liberal government should change tack that Julia Gillard should keep things real in the prsent that the carbon tax will not help the eviroment common sense and keeping things real in the moment says that the big corporations will aford to pay the tax as they will use it as tax lost and would not affect much of the eviroment or climate change at all .we should not believe forward thinking is the ansew all it does is miss detail and the more forwrad thinking gillard does the more she misses detail and the consequecies. its amost shitzophenic some say this in negative but its reality and gillard should think things through thoughly rather rather mouthing off and dangerousely thinking forward . the labor government now is not stable and we should force gillard into an election she is dangerous and a loose cannon in the labor government..

L Costin 06/06/11 10:17 PM Report Abuse

There hasn't been ONE word from the Gilliard government on how they are going to compensate self funded retirees in regards to an introduced Carbon Tax. Self funded retirees drawing money from their pension fund usually pay no tax, and their monthly pensions (in many cases) are just marginally better than the government aged pension. The Gilliard government has stated that it will use the Tax regime to compensate low to middle income taxpayers, and increase the aged pension for our pensioners.

Can SOMEBODY in the Liberal Party please ask Climate change minister Greg Combet HOW he is going to compensate self funded retirees whose pensions are just as small as government assisted pensioner retirees?????

Andrew 07/06/11 01:09 AM Report Abuse

They can't even get the pink bats right. How will they be able to get carbon tax right?

A Spears 07/06/11 02:35 PM Report Abuse

I can’t believe that there are people against a tax that is going to drive industry to stop polluting. You have a problem with this?

I understand being against a tax that was directed at all Australians, whether rich or poor, purely design to raise revenue... ahhh whos bright idea was the GST? What hypocritical hogwosh to then voice concerns about this tax. The revenue raised by the GST is greater than the revenue that will be raised by the Carbon Tax.

Stop thinking about your hip pockets and start thinking about the future generations that are currently going to inherit a legacy from greedy Australians who would rather do nothing than pay. Experts in the field have found flaws in Liberals Direct Action Policy. Tony you need to come up with something better.

L Costin 07/06/11 03:21 PM Report Abuse

To A Spears - If the government hit's industry with a Carbon tax and they merely pass it onto us - where is the INCENTIVE for industry to change how they produce things? Like duh! It is the consumer who pays and pays and pays as the Tax keeps rising over the decades. Also Combet signed off on a deal with the UN at Cancun to give them $600 million at the starting point and rising each year to be distributed to emerging economies - we are simply being FLEECED by governments and global investment bankers like Goldman-Sachs.....which is why Mr. Ego Malcolm Turnbull is all for this damaging Tax. This Tax is a WEALTH DISTRIBUTION Tax, nothing more nothing less. It has nothing to do with saving the environment. If you want to save the planet we need to stop BREEDING at the damaging rate we are - humanity is already cambalizing the planet to feed itself. We are dead men walking, and dumb sheeple like yourself don't even know it. Feeling warm and fuzzy over a Tax won't save future generations - it's already too late.

Bill Northwood 07/06/11 08:16 PM Report Abuse

L Costin is right. Just think about our electricity companies at the moment. Are they being forced to pay for green energy alternatives as well as paying solar energy customers who donate back to the grid? Of course not, they are passing the entire cost of it back to all consumers and we are paying hundreds more per year for electricity. So when the carbon tax penalises them do you think they'll wear it or pass it on to us? Only those who aren't on pensions or low incomes are the ones you hear telling the rest of us that we are greedy and thinking of our selves.

Frances Makarova 10/06/11 04:59 PM Report Abuse

I recommend that people Google Christopher Monckton who has proven the Global Warming thing a hoax, it is curious that they no longer say 'Global Warming' instead it is now 'Climate Change'. Which we often experience several times in a day here in Melbourne.

http://thinkingobjectively.blogspot.com/2009/12/climategate-caught-green-handed-by.html

Fred 13/06/11 09:21 AM Report Abuse

"A vote against the Carbon Tax is vote against "The Clean Air Act."

L Costin 13/06/11 11:08 AM Report Abuse

To Fred- A vote for the Carbon tax is a vote for national industry decimation.
Good luck with explaining to your kids why they will languish on the Dole for years while countries like China and India forge ahead burning up OUR coal.

Fred 17/06/11 07:24 PM Report Abuse

:L Costin here is a blast from the past consider what we went through when they introduce the clean air act .I find it interesting that we are having the same discussion as we did with the clean air act, we even have the same player, some commercial media, Mining Company oil company and power station and the car industries where all against the clean air act..
They told us that they where not polluting the planet and if we introduce the clean air act jobs would be lost ,and prices will go up
Remember what the car industries said back then 'That no Australian would be able to afford to buy a new car because of the cost of implementing the antipollution devices. Guess what we survive, people bought new car our employment went up and we were able to meet increase in prices."A vote against the Carbon Tax is vote against "The Clean Air Act

Nick 20/06/11 01:49 PM Report Abuse

MessageMr Abbott thank you for fighting for our democratic rights Gilied didn't break a promise but instead she lied, if she had said the truth she would not be in power now if she had sworn in a court of Law to tell the truth and nothing but the truth she would be in Gaol "jail".
What julier is doing is not trying to clean the air we breathe but in fact she is trying to tax the air we exhale she is trying to tax carbon dioxides an essential gas for the survival of our plant life and our planet. Putting a tax on carbon dioxides is not an effective way of reducing pollution it's just a way to send us back to candle light and horse and carriage.
Mr Abbot I believe in you and I know you will find a better way to clean the air we breath, This is the only thing that concerns me, clean air, A Global Warming/Climate Change is a lie.

JustMEinT 20/06/11 02:57 PM Report Abuse

I told Ms. Gillard this today.... and I hope thousands of other Australians will take time to tell her also:

Dear Prime Minister
My Christian faith tells me to respect my Civic Leaders - remember Caesar? But I am having a very difficult time following your lead when it is based upon an outright lie.
You promised No Carbon Tax.
You are propagating and perpetuating an outright lie saying humans are raising the temperature of this planet.
You seem to have been persuaded by the Green's in all that you are currently doing, and we did NOT vote for the Greens at the least election.

Please call a referendum on the Carbon Tax issue as soon as possible, so that we Australians can get back to the business of having some faith in our political system. You have seriously caused great angst among the populace and need to clean up your act.
I will continue to pray for you.
Sincerely

Fred 21/06/11 09:10 AM Report Abuse

One thing that you have to worry about the liberal party is what they are not saying. John Howard did not mention anything about selling the last bit of TELSTRA before the 2004 election. There where a huge number of people who where upset about that what a pity we didn't have a referendum back then

Kevin Hicks 21/06/11 09:39 AM Report Abuse

The Govt is not interested in whether Climate Change is man made or not, they have no intention beyond wealth redistribution through unjust taxing of middle and higher income earners.

Australia's population in 2009 was 21,874,900.

There were 12,500,000 registered personal Income Tax earners in 2008/2009

1,107,000 of the registered taxpayers who earned $80,000+ a year so would be liable for the full Carbon Tax with no compensation.

They paid $86,698,150,000 in taxation for this year.

There were 11,193,000 registered taxpayers who earned less than $80,000 and therefore will be given some compensation for the Carbon Tax.

They paid $90,236,850,000 in tax for this year.

Besides what business will be forced to pay, the 1,107,000 taxpayers that earn above $80,000 a year will pay the full Carbon Tax and will be having to contribute to compensating business and the 11,193,000 taxpayers who earn less than $80,000.

These figures were collated from data available through ATO for the 2009 year.

The diagram above shows Income Tax is already the single biggest revenue for the Government and still they continue to tax us more and more.

This has to be considered ridiculous in anyone's language, especially when the Government continually emphasise the tax is aimed at the biggest polluters in the country, well personally,

I don't even smoke, but I guess I am still guilty of breathing.

snowy off the trams 22/06/11 08:22 PM Report Abuse

get out gillard before you thrown out. how disgraceful and unaustralian are you liar liar liar. typical labor party liar cheat thief get out of au get to afghanistan where you belong with the boat people, they tell lies too

Luke 22/06/11 11:12 PM Report Abuse

I'm 17 and i can see that this Carbon Tax will not work - You only have to look at Britain.

They've introduced a Carbon Tax already, the trends are that their consumptions of products are only going to increase, but their production is capped, which means more and more imports - hurting their economy.

This Carbon Tax will not only hurt domestic businesses it may even force more businesses to go offshore hurting job availability.

This Carbon Tax will do nothing globally - the products which we will not be able to produce in Australia anymore will be imported from China, where their production will be increased to compensate.

As more and more imports are needed it will become clear that domestic businesses will struggle and a levy will be placed on imports increasing the cost of the products to the consumer. it appears as though this carbon tax will only stint Australia's economic growth and put costs back onto the consumer adding to inflation.

To sum up, it will do nothing on a global scale, nothing environmentally, just hurting industries and making it harder for future generations.

The only reason for the introduction of a Carbon Tax would be if the agreement was global and every country obeyed it.

5% of the Earth's surface area used with Solar panels can power the entire world - although the price is costly it seems like a no-brainer for the sake of "reversing" climate change, afterall Money is an artifical object and there are more than enough materials and the technology to do it.

cleantheplanet 23/06/11 09:27 PM Report Abuse

"She" is the Prime Minister of Australia. Stop heckling Ms Gillard and let the Government get on with their job. What are you afraid of? Scared that if this Government does achieve it's goals of revolutionary Clean Energy changes, and Australians feel pride about it, that you'll never get to be the PM?

Kevin Hicks 23/06/11 11:08 PM Report Abuse

It is worthwhile restating some facts about carbon and the “carbon economy” that are not generally understood, especially about so-called greenhouse gases and global warming, and including the now fashionable “biochar”.

Carbon (C), the sixth element in the Periodic Table that older people learned at school, is in fact the core element in a huge range of compounds—millions of them—part of a marvellous cycle which extends through the air, all living creatures, the soil, the energy stores … It isn’t just essential to life, it is life! About one fifth of our weight is C, but all in combined forms, almost all with hydrogen (H) and oxygen (O) as carbohydrates (CHOs) and proteins (CHONs). The bonds between the C and H and O represent the greatest energy store on earth. Breaking down—oxidising—these CHOs releases the energy and produces carbon dioxide.

Is carbon nasty? A very small amount of the C on earth exists on its own as elemental carbon, C, in two common forms: charcoal (sometimes called biochar) a rather inert substance, though in fine suspension—smoke—it can be injurious to health; and a crystalline form, diamond, a very hard substance that mainly damages the wallets of men, but is also useful as hard tips for drilling gear. So C itself is not nasty. Perhaps the question ought to be: Is carbon dioxide nasty?

All the loose anti-scientific talk implies that it is. Brendon O’Neill in the Australian, November 2, 2009, reported on a new children’s book, Panic Little Ones, It’s the Carbon Monster, which has a picture of a sooty, blackened monster—carbon dioxide made hideous flesh with a grotesque grin on its face. Carbon dioxide is a colourless, odourless gas involved in the metabolism of these children, their life and energy, the nice green plants around them and the fruit and vegetables that nourish them!

Many more complex compounds are made using solar energy and carbon dioxide as a base, some in due course stored as coal and oil, and these can be dirty in the sense that black is dirty, but that does not make them evil. Yet Tim Flannery, in his book The Weather Makers, calls oil and coal “rascally fuel” and alleges that in using them that we are “pilfering the buried bounty of this alien world”. This is nonsense: all are parts of a wondrous carbon economy. Rather, these are marvels of the planet, by-products of biological processes, part of a vast, complex and exciting cycle—which, like so many other things, humans must responsibly manage.

Is There Too Much Carbon?

There cannot be too much or too little of the element carbon in the totality of the compounds—the amount is fixed—yet every day someone writes or talks about there being too much carbon. Because of its role as the basis of life in the wrap-around living “skin” of the Earth, the amount is huge, even just in the form of carbon dioxide: probably 700–800 billion tonnes in the atmosphere; probably more than 2000 billion tonnes in all of the living organisms and creatures associated with the soil; and a staggering roughly 40,000 billion tonnes in the oceans. This huge oceanic reservoir of carbon dioxide nourishes the green organisms such as algae in the waters of the seas in the same way as it nourishes green things on land, possibly involving a greater total quantity of carbon dioxide.

It is relevant that warmer sea water holds less carbon dioxide in solution than colder water. On the other hand, sea warming would mean more photosynthetic activity, and therefore more carbon dioxide uptake, by the myriad of microscopic plants and animals in it. Further, the ocean current mixing of deeper colder water and warmer surface water plays a part—carbon dioxide is most soluble in cold water under pressure. The whole system is very complex, involving a global system of currents.

Is there too much carbon dioxide? Setting aside whether too much of this in the earth’s atmosphere is the main cause of air temperature rise (or whether it is in fact rising at all, for that matter) we will look at several aspects of the wonderful carbon cycle that underpins our lives on Earth. Notwithstanding the range and complexity of the C compounds on earth, we can manage parts of the cycles to reduce the amount of various carbon compounds, including carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. We can oxidise less C, we can capture some of the carbon dioxide and lock it away in domed rock formations, and we can increase the turning of carbon dioxide into other carbon compounds, especially ones that are stable and can be put out of the way, such as in plants and soils. However, in doing so we must stress the importance of sound research, and be reminded from time to time that the processes obey the laws of nature, which are immutable.

The Marvellous Carbon Economy

With compounds of carbon the basis of life on earth, at the core is that great marvel, green plants, and we should never lose our awe at the seedling shoot emerging from the soil—and its tip turning green within a few hours. This tip turning green affirms two things: first, that yet another power line to the sun has been added to the vast number already connected; and, second, another draw-down of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere has been turned on, enlarging the manufacturing “floor” area for the earth’s carbohydrates (CHOs). These CHOs are made by C from the carbon dioxide bonding with hydrogen (H) and oxygen (O) from water. As is usual in chemical bonding, energy is latent in these bonds, and can be released as needed, under the right circumstances. The process of green plants capturing this energy is called photosynthesis and the release of the energy in living creatures is called respiration.

Most people know this much, but from here on confusion reigns, perhaps understandably, because the living things and various allied processes develop a vast array of organic compounds with C combined with varying ratios of H and O, and sometimes only with H. There are short chains with six carbons (such as glucose), others with twelve (such as sucrose), and many more complex ones such as cellulose, of which the estimated annual turnover is a trillion tonnes. Plants make, store and use these CHOs, and other living organisms then use plants as their food source, sometimes digesting the CHOs for energy almost immediately, or storing it in their tissues for later use, breaking the bonds to release the energy. For animals we associate this with breathing—taking in O, and then disposing of (breathing out) the carbon dioxide. All sorts of arrangements are involved in these living things: CHOs used in building the plant’s stem and leaves and the animal’s flesh and muscles and fat, especially with nitrogen (N) to form proteins, which are chains of amino acids, CHO plus N. So carbon dioxide (O-C-O) the raw material of photosynthesis and the product of all carbohydrate and hydrocarbon oxidations, is, like water (H-O-H), just about everywhere there is life, a vital part of the system.

As well as the CHOs mentioned above, there are many other groups of organic compounds in nature. (Humans have manufactured some more synthetic compounds.) A few examples of these compounds, all consisting mostly or entirely of C, H and O, will illustrate their importance: methyl alcohol (methylated spirits), ethyl alcohol (usually just known as “alcohol”), acetic acid (vinegar), butyric acid (which occurs in butter and cod-liver oil); and then there are the hydrocarbons, our fuels and oils, such as methane, high-octane liquids and, with longer chains of carbon molecules, oils and greases, and finally coal. The lower carbon hydrocarbons all ignite easily, the higher numbers take a bit more effort, but all oxidise to give carbon dioxide and water.

We all know protein is vital in life, so the supply of nitrogen is important and must be managed. There is a vast reservoir of N in the atmosphere—80 per cent of it, so hundreds of times more than carbon dioxide—and N is best brought into the living system from the atmosphere by farmers using the legume plant family which host bacteria on their roots and exchange CHOs for N compounds. Plants need adequate N to give good yields, and if farmers cannot fit growing legumes into their operation they may use synthetic N fertilisers, made by using fossil fuel energy and producing carbon dioxide. Australian farmers have been better than most at using legumes to access N from the atmosphere

Fred 26/06/11 09:45 AM Report Abuse

Kevin Hicks when it come to medicine are you the type of guy who would say 1 table is good for me so i take 4 it must be a lot better . every thing must be relevant is it relevant to increase CO2 in our atmosphere when 40% of these extra CO2 is absorb by the ocean and sea of the world

Fred 26/06/11 07:32 PM Report Abuse

Kevin Hicks (There cannot be too much or too little of the element carbon in the totality of the compounds—the amount is fixed ): I think that statement must refer to carbon in a solid state I don't want to razzle dazzle you with science but just think about this you start with carbon then carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide.Every time we burn carbon it attaches itself to an oxygen molecule how many free oxygen molecule do we have to give to carbon to create CO2 well there 2 for every 1 of carbon I think we have enough CO2 let keep the Oxygen molecule for us human to breath..Kevin I don't understand why you are doing the bidding of the oil and mining companies who gave us such wonderful thinks like pollution in the air and our waterways (rivers and oceans) and remember smog I used to travel to city of Sydney and from a distance you can see the city engulf by smog and lets not forget about acid rain and the effect it had on the European Forrest strip them bare of all foliage but wait there more fishing around Sydney was great but there was no way possible of eating the fish was full of pollutes and of course a high level of mercury all thanks to your mates.Next time you talk to your mates ask then if they still have those alternative power source still lock up in there vaults.That wright people did invent a different way to create power and the companies paid big money on the pretense that it would be used!!! still waiting.So Kevin don't be afraid of embracing a world without burning fossil fuel.There a plenty of alternative power sources being used and sure there will be more to come.
Solar - Wind -Geothermal - Wave - bio fuels.how long would it take to have these alternative power sources take over from carbon fuels not long judging from past experience.Lets just take solar panels for the house.
6 solar panels = 1Kw/hr how long would it take to make 1 solar panel = 1kw/hr what about 1 solar panel = 5kw/hr with an inbuilt inverter in the solar panel. What about wave power new technology yet to reach it full potential. there are many way to produce power so don't worry be happy because in the future there be no carbon tax .to pay. Kevin I know you will be sadden for your mates but don't be I'm sure they will open there vaults and then compete with all the others alternative power sources "A vote against the Carbon Tax is vote against "The Clean Air Act."

Jen On Your Side 30/06/11 10:45 PM Report Abuse

Interesting letter in today's Advertiser (30 Jun 2011) from Mike Rann, Premier of South Australia.

He says that SA has achieved the Federal Govt's national targets for renewable energy 9 years ahead of schedule and three years ahead of SA's own schedule. And that, if SA were a nation instead of a state, it would be second in the world to Denmark with market penetration of wind power. Also SA's carbon emissions are dropping faster than any other national state in Australia.

All that without a carbon tax!! just goes to show it can be done with a little thought and determination and business and community suport.

Frances Makarova 30/06/11 11:54 PM Report Abuse

Just one question for you Jen On Your Side, since carbon in the atmosphere is fixed, why would it be a good thing, if they are dropping faster in South Australia? And how is SA managing to prevent emissions from other States (and even from places like Chili which recently had that Volcano which interrupted airline travel recently), from drifting into across the borders to SA? Or are they actually saying that their own 'dirty smog' emissions have been reduced?

Jen On Your side 01/07/11 01:55 PM Report Abuse

Just quoting Mika Rann, our highly esteemed and most honest Premier. Perhaps he should be Prime Minister!

To be quite honest, it was the first I had heard of this wonderful SA achievement and hoped that, by posting it, a Liberal party guru, with more knowledge and political wit than I, might investigate and perhaps use to political advantage, whatever that might look like.

ROBYNNE morton 04/07/11 06:27 PM Report Abuse

How will this carbon tax work on petrol? Will we have a bowser for family cars ,?and a bowser for light trucks,and a bowser for heavy trucks?and a bowser for small busineses ?IT IS STARTING TO SOUND LIKE THE CANDLES ON THE CAKE WHEN THE GST WAS GOING TO COME IN ?

Lynette 04/07/11 07:56 PM Report Abuse

Gillard announced a compensation package for self funded retirees with a Health Care Card - what about the thousands of self funded retirees who don't have one? My husband retired due to ill health at 61, and I myself am 60. Our allocated pension is a around $36,000 a year. Because we are under 65 we don't have access to a Health Care Card or any Centrelink benefits.................I ask Gillard, HOW are we going to cope with a Carbon Tax???????????? I ask Tony Abbott, who I have written to several times, WHEN are you going to bring up the issue ( with Gillard ) of self funded retirees without a Health Care Card who will NOT receive any help??? $36,000 per year hardly comes under the banner of 'high income'.!!!! We have voted for the coalition for decades, and I am relying on them to help us in our hour of need. Gillard is dangerously playing with people's lives - it high time this Labor government were bought to account for the utter mess they have created. If people like my husband and I don't receive compensation for her Carbon Tax, she will see us on the Aged Pension sooner rather than later........we will, in effect become a burden on the Taxpayer............instead of being self reliant in our future years.

Frances Makarova 04/07/11 10:42 PM Report Abuse

Lynette Julia Gillard will not listen to anyone she is hell bent on destroying Australia. She will not be happy until she sees Australia on its knees. I am sure that there is a global extreme left-wing movement to take control of as many nations as they can. One only has to see the state that the US and other nations under left-wing control are in now to realize that we have been infiltrated, and the Greens are a huge part of it.

ALAN 05/07/11 05:47 PM Report Abuse

WHY DONT WE HAVE ANOTHER ELECTION & KICK GILLARD & GREENS FOOL OUT !
GET THERE FACTS RIGHT.
VOLCANOS PRODUCE MORE CARBON IN 1 DAY THAN EVERYTHING WORLDWIDE CAN IN 2 YRS , STOP CUTTING DOWN THE WORLDS FORESTS 1st , IF GREENS WERE SERIOUS WHY DONT THEY USE WATER (H2 o ) @ PRODUCE HYDROGEN AS BY PRODUCT AFTER USE IS WATER AGAIN ! WOW WHAT A BUNCH OF IDIOTS WE HAVE SO CALLED RUNNING THIS COUNTRY ( WHAT A JOKE )
QLD GUY MAKES & SELLS HYDROGEN UNIT FOR CARS & TRUCKS RUNS 50 - 60% LESS FUEL & PROVEN 30% LESS CARBON ! THAT WOULD BE A GREAT START ! CARBON TAX IS JUST ANOTHER RIP OFF WORLDWIDE MONEY HUNGRY GOVERNMENTS !!

Adela 05/07/11 10:12 PM Report Abuse

We need to ask WHY IS JULIA GILLARD & HER CRONIES SO COMMITTED TO THIS TAX?
We know it has nothing to do with reducing carbon emmisions. SO what is really behind their push?
Are they committed to agreements Kevin Rudd made as PM that they can not get out of?
This tax has nothing to with carbon but everything to do with coming up with $10 billion a year promised by Kevin Rudd. Any money raised by this tax will not change one thing in Australia. This money will be going overseas. AUSTRALIA WILL NOT BE BETTER OFF! Carbon emmisions will stay the same but everyone will just have to pay for them. How does this fix anything?
SO ask WHY? What made them change their minds? What is really behind their relentless push into this rediculous tax?

L Costin 05/07/11 10:26 PM Report Abuse

Adela said: 'What is really behind their relentless push into this rediculous tax?'

My answer to that question is one word: CANCUN

Rudd and Combet SIGNED Australia up to a UN agreement that will see us sending over $600 million in the first year, and steadily rising every yea into the future. That money will go to third world countries - in short, it is a wealth distribution scheme that will forever be paid by us, our children and grandchildren into the future. This has NOTHING to do with saving the environment. People like Malcolm Turnbull and his investment banker buddies at Goldman-Sachs are salivating at the prospect of this TAX. They are salivating because they are going to make FAT profits from it. This is a Tax open to serious corruption and rorting. Governments are technically BROKE, and because of that they are about to wring blood out of a stone! The stones are you and I........to be milked dry, with the future of our children to be sacrificed on the alter of GREED!!

P Schymitzek 06/07/11 08:12 PM Report Abuse

The Liberal party, while in power, seemed to look over a very solid economy, steadily driving income tax down. very well managed. I'm against the carbon tax. It seems to be a penalty rather than working with companies that want to do their part in improving the environment. Additionally, the carbon tax sounds uglier every day, with exemptions for numerous sectors of business and community. Ugly.
Assuming that some measures need to be taken to build a minimal-carbon future, I would much rather see an increase in income tax. Everyone pays for a problem that involves everyone. The tax (yes, this is definitely a tax) becomes are basic part of government revenue used to aid in research and assisting businesses in modifying their practices.

Bob 07/07/11 10:12 AM Report Abuse

When you have the likes of Virgin's Branson saying no country should go it alone with a carbon tax because it will weaken the worlds resolve at Dublin to do something as a whole - countries like Australia going it alone is like cherry picking the power of the group. Why would China think it needs to do anything, when they can rely on individual countries to go it alone? I'm still a not a climate catastrophist, but surely Abbots view of tax incentives etc is a far better position to start a carbon response and wait and see what the world does and then follow suite. Why effectively economically shoot ourselves in the leg now, just because the rest of the world won't play ball yet?

Mrs caroline Yuile 07/07/11 01:12 PM Report Abuse

I think Ms Gillard need to make new election now because the country is going broke if we keep this stupid member on what is she trying to do this country we did vote her in she came on board from Indepenedents they are not doing a think to help this situation the government need to countable for their actions on this we don't want a carbon tax and if this carbon tax we are going to broke the whole of the industry is going.
THis Labor Government is like in the old days when Keating was aboard with this we have gone back not forward.

We need to vote now not next year but now.
regards
Mrs C Yuile

Frances Makarova 07/07/11 02:15 PM Report Abuse

I would like an election to be called asap but unfortunately, it is not going to happen while Ms. Gillard has the so called Independents and Bob Browns Greens calling the shots, but she is unlikely to call an election for herself, because she knows she would be out on her ample rear end.

Dionne Heaven 07/07/11 03:21 PM Report Abuse

everybody has said exsactly what I want to say, she will never do another
term as prime minister, she was never voated in as one buy the anstralian people, lets get her out now, there is power in numbers, we need to show our strengh and unite together to remove her::

Karen (Lane Cove) 07/07/11 07:49 PM Report Abuse

When can we vote Gillard and Labor/Greens out of office before they do any more damage to the country!!!

Toby 09/07/11 04:42 PM Report Abuse

Get Gillard out!! Get good policy in!! Carbon tax is the straw that's going to break the camels back.
NO CARBON TAX WHAT SO EVER!!!

Lyn 09/07/11 04:58 PM Report Abuse

One sleep to go before we know how BADLY we are about to be SCREWED! God save us all, because NOTHING will save JuLIAR Gillard and her traitorous rabble.

Rowena 09/07/11 05:07 PM Report Abuse

NO to carbon tax!! Australia needs discussion not a dictator. Do our views not count?

Frances Makarova 09/07/11 07:35 PM Report Abuse

It looks as though our views do not count with the current illegitimate Gillard Govt. she has sold Australians down the river for her own ego and undoubtedly profit. May she get what she deserves.

Frances Makarova 09/07/11 08:55 PM Report Abuse

I just learned that I will be supposedly getting $250 from Julia Gillard to offset the Carbon Tax. But what about my children and grandchildren who will be ripped off. Does she really think she can buy off us 'old age pensioners' with a measly $250 when our families will be beggared by her Carbon Tax?

Bill Northwood 09/07/11 09:15 PM Report Abuse

I heard one report that we'll need $200 per week extra to offset the true cost of the carbon tax. Somehow I don't think Julie will be up for that :(

Rod Smith 09/07/11 10:12 PM Report Abuse

throwing money at people wont fix the solution, when the carbon tax introduced it will stay there forever and throwing money will distablish the australian people and also the present government, gillard is disilusional if she thinks its for the future of our children. all it has done is burdened the next generation with taxes and finacial hardship for our children. we have enough taxes as it now, GST, stamp duty, Carbon Tax. whats next the air we breath. gillard thinks it will solve the enviroment, and it will hurt big companies. what gillard does not know in business and if you make big money and you pay a tax, all the big companies will use the carbon tax as a loophole for a profit loss on their returns of the finacial year. i sugest to gillard stop moving forward and think things through and keep it real in the moment and stop making mistakes. i believe the liberal government should force gillard for an election for being disilusional for the australian people, it has been done before , i can see why not.

Brian Harnett 10/07/11 10:58 AM Report Abuse

Brian
I sincerely hope that Tony can repeal this Carbon Tax, and show this Labour Government just what most people in Australia think of Gillards tax. This Tax will affect just about everything we purchase and produce, and who knows, there seems to be no end to the amount of pricing of this tax, and what happens if the tax rises from their suggested $23/ton to say $50 or $100 , i'm sure she wont repeatedly "compensate" the pensioners and families as it rises . No this abominable tax has to go. Good luck with the challenge !.

Lynette 10/07/11 11:57 AM Report Abuse

For humanity to have ANY effect on global climate change the ENTIRE world must move as ONE.....not one country on it's own. If she gets away with this we are in deep trouble.

Frances Makarova 10/07/11 12:56 PM Report Abuse

Unfortunately unless Labor and the Greens can be kicked out of government before 1st of July next year, we will have this blasted Carbon Tax, and yes it will have an impact. Surprise surprise, Julia is lying again. Jobs will be lost because of it, companies will take their business overseas, and Australia will be a lot worse off.

Lynette 10/07/11 02:58 PM Report Abuse

Frances - what people don't realize is that her 'compensation package' is only for the introduction stage. Once the TAX is in place, it will rise in increments, and that will NOT be compensated for. She is dangling 30 pieces of silver to soothe the palpable anger to this Carbon Tax. My fear is that millions will fall for the BRIBE! I truly fear for the future of this country....especially for those coming up under us. This is not the only problem we face. China is buying up vast tracks of agricultural land in this country. As radio king Alan Jones as stated, they will either grow food for their own population, or mine the land. We in effect no longer have control over this land unless State governments move with legislation to protect it. We would have to be barking mad to sell our prime farmlands to foreign interests, given the fact that Australia has so little of it now. This country needs to look to future food security for the sake of our children and their children. Australia is not the only country where the Chinese are buying up land for their own future food needs. South America and Africa are in the same boat. Why is this government NOT looking after our needs, our future, and our security in an ever increasingly hostile world?? People need to stop thinking about their next coffee latte` and start thinking about the country and it's precarious place in the world. We feed the Chinese dragon at our peril.....we did it with Japan and reaped the consequences. China is far far worse because of it's massive population and one party state system. For China to attain Western standards it will take 4 planet earths to feed it's voracious appetite.........and that is a conservative guess from scientific modeling. Scientific modeling is something that Gillard is so fond of these days - maybe someone should show her the Chinese one. Oh wait.......she was over there kowtowing not long, swanning around Tianamen Square wearing a red jacket. So apt. They even cleared the square of all the tourists so she could have her photo taken in an empty square. I bet Kevin Rudd was seething! It should have been me!! It should have been me!!! Poor Kevin........

Bill Northwood 10/07/11 07:15 PM Report Abuse

I totally agree Lynette. This is the most insane social experiment ever contrived by an Australian Government.

This will be a hidden tax on everything that unlike the GST, won't be included on receipts and invoices so we'll never know what percentage of future price rises is carbon tax and how much is from big business just trying to cash in on it. Power companies must think all their Christmas's have come at once as they'll be able to explain away any future price rises - genuine or otherwise on the carbon tax.

The only people that seem to be in favour of a hidden tax on everything are those who's definition of tightening their belts doesn't include having to decide whether to cut back on food, heating or healthcare.

rod smith 10/07/11 08:29 PM Report Abuse

dark days are coming. its the ethos that can ruin human civilization for all of mankind. what is more important protecting the human race. or protecting the eviroment, when the day will come. when only a few surivive. the eviroment will be then be in a different place, and with no industry running the enviroment will be okay to live and breath. its unfortrunate for the sake of the human race, the enviroment always prevails. when a civilization is gone another one is reborn. like through out the ages civilzations have come and gone. when the western civilzation is under threat of extiction major changes has to happen, one we all call onto tony abbot to call an election for change or suiffer the hands of gillard an end to the human race, i am no alarmist or doom and gloom, lets face it , in realty not only australia is in crisis so is the world.

Fred 11/07/11 06:12 AM Report Abuse

Tony Abbot talking and showing concern about people loosing there job what a hypocrite . How many people lost there jobs when the Liberal party was in power and not one tear for them and how about if they win Joe Hockey is ready to sack between 10000 to 100000 people hypocrite hypocrite hypocrite

coltrev 11/07/11 06:19 AM Report Abuse

What's the situation with the quantum of the tax pool raised by the $23 per tonne/compensation package if one, more or all of the "about 500" big polluters close down their business or move their activities to other non-carbon taxing countries?

Would there be sufficient money in the dwindling tax pool to fulfil the federal minority government's compensation largesse?

Will this package just create another classic example of Labor's monumental economic mismanagement stuff-ups?

Let's rally across Australia against this tax and demand an election to test the "mandate" of the minority federal government!

Simon 12/07/11 09:09 AM Report Abuse

Can anyone tell me if there is some way we can force a new election to kick out Juliar and her corrupt party? I would gladly sign up for the revolution. Totally behind Mr Abbott and the liberal party in their opposition to this stupid and pointless carbon tax.

Michael 12/07/11 12:26 PM Report Abuse

Tony, Im not really a political follower, but can you tell me why you cant just call for an election??? Ive had it with Labour and the Current Cowboys running this country, bet if they everyone knew who and what they were voting for, the previous election may have gone a little different!

Lyn 12/07/11 12:40 PM Report Abuse

To Michae


The only way an election can be called is if the Greens or one of the three independents pulls the pin....and that isn't going to happen while Gillard and her goons are meeting all their demands. The three independents have placed demands on Gillard for their support and so have the Greens. The only other way an election can be called is if the Governor General (Quentin Bryce) steps in........and that won't happen either, because BILL SHORTEN is her son-in-law!! He was one of the people who bought Gillard to power. You have to hand it to Labor.....they installed Quentin Bryce as GG and therefore protected themselves from having another Kerr incident from happening to them. Cunning......very very cunning.

I am sorry Michael - we now (in effect) no longer have a democracy. The will of the people has been trampled , ignored and worse.....we have been LIED to.

Frances 12/07/11 01:30 PM Report Abuse

Lyn, don't forget that Governor General Kerr was a Labor man, but unfortunately the Senate is now controlled by the Greens and Labor, so there is no similar reason why the GG would step in.

It was the Senate Blocking Supply and the PM was trying to borrow money from Labour's Connor and other ministers had made contact with a hitherto-obscure Pakistani financier, Tirath Khemlani, which forced Kerr to dissolve Parliament and Kerr removed the Labour Govt. Known as The Loans Affair.

Because in -

"The 1975 Australian constitutional crisis (sometimes called "the Dismissal") has been described as the greatest political crisis and constitutional crisis in Australia's history. It culminated on 11 November 1975 with the removal of the Prime Minister, Gough Whitlam of the Australian Labor Party (ALP), by Governor-General Sir John Kerr. Kerr then appointed the Leader of the Opposition Malcolm Fraser as caretaker Prime Minister."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Australian_constitutional_crisis#Deferral_of_supply

Unfortunately for us, the Senate is in the grubby hands of Labor the Greens and Independents who have signed up with Labor these days so the situation is different.

Maria 13/07/11 02:54 PM Report Abuse

PLEASE, PLEASE STOP THE CARBON TAX! WHAT DO WE AS A COUNTRY NEED TO DO TO STOP THIS MADNESS? WE ARE KILLING THE "LUCKY COUNTRY"!

Rob 13/07/11 06:23 PM Report Abuse

I speak for the silent majority. We do not like the carbon tax. We do not believe that Julia Gillard has a mandate for this tax. We will demonstrate to her & to labour conclusively that their arrogance has a terrible price. They will disappear in West Australia. Country-wide we will remove them for two generations. Labour be warned. The lunatic green fringe & the dangerous left-wing intellectuals must & will be stopped.

RMASSERA 13/07/11 08:32 PM Report Abuse

I support efforts to reduce pollution in general and believe an Australian economy powered by renewable energy is possible within my lifetime. However I strongly oppose Labor's carbon tax, because:

1) It will fail in its stated objective - it aims to reduce carbon emissions by 120 million tonnes by 2020, this equates to less than 0.4% of global emissions as of 2008. China is increasing its emissions every year (500 million tonnes) by more than our entire carbon output in any single year (400 million tonnes). I's like trying to reduce carbon dioxide emissions in an enclosed garage, containing a pet canary and an idling car, by asphyxiating the bird and ignoring the machine.

2) It will cost the nation billions - the tax does not balance & business will have to buy offshore carbon credits when the ETS begins in 2015 to meet reduction targets. Wouldn't that money be better spent in Australia to create jobs and new industries?

3) it undermines our system & history of democracy - there is no example of such transformational reform that has been imposed without being voted on in a general election.

So the tax proposes to cost billions, increase the cost of living, threaten businesses, jobs and maybe reduce global emissions by 0.4% by 2020 at best? How can anyone think that's money well spent and good policy?

Frances 13/07/11 09:25 PM Report Abuse

I received my invitation on Monday afternoon to attend the meeting in Frankston today, but unfortunately when I rang on Tuesday morning to book my seat, I was informed that all 400 seats had been taken. So I was not at all happy when I saw on Fox Channel where that Greens woman was ranting at Tony Abbott, and later accused a man who had followed her out of the meeting of abusing her, but she was caught on camera threatening him, and he was just standing there silently a few feet away from her as she ranted at him.

This afternoon I rang MTR 1377, after I heard this same Greenie woman accusing the man of abuse, but she was being filmed by the media, hijacking the Frankston meeting, the meeting was in fact by invitation, she claimed that she had been interrogated when she called to get her seat, but when I called, I was treated very nicely, no interrogation at all. So as you can imagine, I was really upset that this woman was only there to cause trouble.

Basically she took my seat, or from someone else who want to discuss our issues, and not promote the Greens and cause trouble.

Watch your backs, because clearly the Greenies play dirty.

Lyn 13/07/11 09:36 PM Report Abuse

Frances - Watch your backs, because clearly the Greenies play dirty.

Why am I not surprised - this is going to get dirtier by the day, because as we all know leftist rabble usually vent their spleen using violence, intimidation and the use of dirty tactics. Our universities are a breeding ground for these people......look what they did during the Vietnam years. Spat on our soldiers, called them baby killers and threw red pain on them as they disembarked from the ships. Disgraceful. I would like to see them try that with our Afghanistan boys. They would be torn to shreds! These are the tactics they are well known for. In my view Tony Abbott should insist on Federal Police being present at any future meeting.........a video camera wouldn't go astray either.

Barry Nicholson 16/07/11 11:54 AM Report Abuse

Fighting this on an environmental platform is a mistake - this is a tax to reduce the deficit and nothing to do with the environment. The opposition has failed to pick the ground on which to fight this and so comes away looking like climate skeptics. The ALP has been successful so far at keeping the wool pulled over the eyes and deflecting most of the issues to the Looney Greens. The pressure needs to be put on now that the tax is entirely for meeting the deficit, and use the ALPs own actions to show this - they have cancelled Zerogen project, cancelled solar and insulation projects and have switched from spending to taking money. They are supporting the major polluters and plan to switch to an ETS within a few years - so why introduce a tax now?? The only answer is to get the budget into surplus before the next election!

Fred 18/07/11 06:17 AM Report Abuse

.The tax is for the big polluters to give them incentive to Research and developed exiting and new means to produce power eg power station can still burn coal but they may be able to capture or remove CO2 from power plant before it reaches the air.
Introduction of the tax will make the big companies look for alternative power source There are plenty of alternative power sources being used and sure there will be more to come some people will say that alternative power are too expensive but has history as show thing become cheaper eg the first mobile phone was so big and bulky (they didn't call it the brick for nothing) and look at the size there are today. Solar - Wind -Geothermal - Wave - bio fuels lets just take solar panels for the home it takes 6 solar panels = 1Kw/hr how long would it take to make 1 solar panel = 1kw/hr what about 1 solar panel = 5kw/hr with an inbuilt inverter in the solar panel.I notice today an add which gives you 6 panels now = 1.4kw/hr What about wave power new technology yet to reach it full potential. there are many way to produce power so don't worry be happy because in the future there be no carbon tax to pay.

Fred 18/07/11 06:20 AM Report Abuse

With or without carbon tax the power station people don't get a move on to protect there industries and start investing in a better way to burn coal they could loose there clients to a new power broker like “Bloom Boxes.”The Future Of Energy.

Frances 18/07/11 12:05 PM Report Abuse

Fred, you do not re-green the planet by Taxing people. You plant Trees, Australia could definitely do with more trees. Another thing is that instead of stopping rivers from flowing naturally let the rivers follow their natural paths. More Trees = Less Pollution.

More Taxes never solved any problems, it just turns spendthrift leaders like Julia Gillard and Labor to waste even more of the nation's hard earned money.

The current Labor govt. is illegitimate they entered into Deals with the Greens and Independents when they really should go to an election and let the People choose our own Govt. We are supposed to choose who will govern Australia, not the Labor Party who is giving away Australians money in order to steal our future and our nation.

Bill Northwood 18/07/11 05:15 PM Report Abuse

If it was actually going to be a tax just on big polluters I could go along with it but it will just be a tax on everyone else as the big companies will just pass it along - just like the electricity companies are doing to us now with infrastructure costs and renewable energy requirements forced onto them by the Government. So in a sense, we are already paying a carbon tax. But with the real carbon tax there will be hundreds more companies doing this and any tax cuts or rebates for low income earners based on what the Government is promising will be inadequate.

Think recent electricity bill increases then add that on to every thing else you buy and see how far Gillard's tax offset gets you.

John 21/07/11 05:23 PM Report Abuse

Anne - China has a carbon price actually its just easier for them to impose becasue they are communist. Also Australia has more polution per head than any other country. And just so you all know, it isnt a "carbon tax" its a "carbon price" that only some companies have to pay. Tony Abbott is lying by saying it is a "carbon tax".

I am saddened that Australia's narrow minded opinion on the carbon scheme only allows them to see it as a tax. What they dont realise is there is numerous compensation and government assistance coming out of this.

I would like to know, if this carbon pricing cheme is so terrible what Tony Abbot proposes to do about climate change that is so much better? He is spending all his time saying how Julia lied and none of it proposing a better plan for the future and to tackle climate change.

Frances 21/07/11 06:59 PM Report Abuse

John, if it is NOT a Carbon Tax, why has Julia promised to reimburse those of us who have limited incomes?

It is a Carbon Tax if I pay more at the petrol pump, it is a carbon tax if, I have to pay more to buy my food at the supermarkets, and for my electricity and gas and most probably my water, and of course my Council Rates too.

"If it looks like a Tax, it smells like a Tax, and it tastes like a Tax it is a TAX" to borrow from Cheech and Chong,

Bill Northwood 21/07/11 07:32 PM Report Abuse

I don't think that Australians have a narrow minded opinion towards a carbon tax, it's just many of us are on low incomes. For many who think it's a good idea, tightening their belts means changing the type of family holiday or downgrading the 4 wheel drive to a sedan.

I'm on a low income due to a health issue and support my wife who has M.S. She is unable to regulate her body temperature and we require the air-conditioning on 24/7. For us to make a token gesture to the environment so that we can be seen to be doing something would mean deciding whether we cut back on food or medication, we have no surplus money or luxuries at all. The carbon tax will affect every purchase not just electricity and the Government subsidy won't get near it . People who have money just have no idea what it's like and seem very quick to point the finger at those that don't.

Fred 21/07/11 09:00 PM Report Abuse

. The carbon tax an impost or an incentive.this tax is a wake call to all industries to reduce there carbon footprint this doesn't mean reduce power just an alternative to burning coal the way we do now.This tax is a incentive for the coal power industries to Research and developed exiting and new means to produce power eg power station can still burn coal but they may be able to capture or remove CO2 from power plant before it reaches the air.Just imagine if Australia could lead the world in non CO2 emission Power Plants China would be first in line to buy that type of technology have you seen a picture of a Chinese city not a pretty sight with all that pollution and smog and don't forget Acid rain which is causing erosion of there statue and if they keep pumping the pollution out more there rice crop will be effected by the acid rain that why they have a large program to find alternative energy source.So come on Aussie be the first to create a clean coal burning power station .If the power station people don't get a move on to protect there industries and start investing in a better way to burn coal they could loose there clients to a new power broker like “Bloom Boxes.”The Future Of Energy.and there are plenty more alternative power sources to come

Frances 21/07/11 09:29 PM Report Abuse

Fred please explain exactly just how would this carbon tax work as an incentive? An incentive for what? Carbon dioxide does not cause acid rain. Carbon dioxide is natural, we all breathe out carbon dioxide, and guess what Trees and Plants grow better because of Carbon Dioxide. It is Carbon Monoxide that is poisonous. Sulphur Dioxide and Nitrogen Oxides cause Acid Rain.

Those so called 'smoke stacks' used by Julia Gillard claiming they were releasing poisons into the atmosphere were actually releasing 'Steam". Which is H2O - Water.

Water (H2O) is the most abundant compound on Earth's surface, covering about 70%. In nature, it exists in liquid, solid, and gaseous states. It is in dynamic equilibrium between the liquid and gas states at standard temperature and pressure. At room temperature, it is a tasteless and odorless liquid, nearly colorless with a hint of blue. Many substances dissolve in water and it is commonly referred to as the universal solvent. Because of this, water in nature and in use is rarely pure and some of its properties may vary slightly from those of the pure substance. However, there are also many compounds that are essentially, if not completely, insoluble in water. Water is the only common substance found naturally in all three common states of matter and it is essential for all life on Earth.[3] Water usually makes up 55% to 78% of the human body.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Properties_of_water

Nick 21/07/11 10:21 PM Report Abuse

Fred the only problem with what you are saying is that it would be great in a perfect fairyland world where there was love respect for one another, no greed or evil, but we are living in the real world. They are not trying to TAX the smog nor are they trying to reduce the smog Or Pollution "Carbon Monoxides", They are trying to TAX us on an invisible odourless gas, how do we even measure it, how do we guarantee that it will be done fairly. CO2 is an important and essential element for life.

Man only contributes about 0.28%, if water vapour is taken into account-- about 5.53%. If not. This point is so crucial to the debate over global warming that how water vapour is or isn't factored into an analysis of Earth's greenhouse gases makes the difference between describing a significant human contribution to the greenhouse effect, or a negligible one. Based on this a say no I don't believe them.

Go and do your research most of the clean energies they are talking about such as Natural GAS even though they are almost clean from carbon monoxides "Pollution” still produces carbon dioxides. This tax will never end our children our grand children and great grand children will still be paying for this. I would have supported a tax maybe if they were trying to tax carbon monoxides "Pollution" because there might be an end to the tax someday after we have cleaned the Pollution. Since you are on the subject of acid rain what ever happened to the acid rain threat we had in the eighties, wasn't that one of our biggest threat last Century with scientific reports, I guess it was also the biggest lie of last Century, Sound Familiar.

So even though what you say sounds warm and fuzzy and perfect I still say no to a carbon tax and yes to Tony Abbots Solution.

AWAKE 22/07/11 09:26 AM Report Abuse

Galileo would be mortified to know that you use his name for such a narrow minded pursuit of reluctance to change, he was an explorer.

The earth is not inherited from our predecessors it is borrowed from our children.

The more that people jump up and down and worry about dollars and cents (for which the government is trying to compensate) the longer we are doing nothing about destroying our planet with harmful chemicals. All of a sudden everyone is an expert on climate change, well, to a lamen 0.0387% seems like a very infintessimal ammount, but if it were to become 0.05% all life on this planet would be wiped out, including organisms. If we constantly look to others to act first, what kind of sovreign nation are we that we can't see our own future. Stop wearing blinkers Australia, this is a move in the right direction, stop think I, I, I and start thinking ... WE.

Awake 22/07/11 09:27 AM Report Abuse

Galileo would be mortified to know that you use his name for such a narrow minded pursuit of reluctance to change, he was an explorer.

The earth is not inherited from our predecessors it is borrowed from our children.

The more that people jump up and down and worry about dollars and cents (for which the government is trying to compensate) the longer we are doing nothing about destroying our planet with harmful chemicals. All of a sudden everyone is an expert on climate change, well, to a lamen 0.0387% seems like a very infintessimal ammount, but if it were to become 0.05% all life on this planet would be wiped out, including organisms. If we constantly look to others to act first, what kind of sovreign nation are we that we can't see our own future. Stop wearing blinkers Australia, this is a move in the right direction, stop think I, I, I and start thinking ... WE.

John 22/07/11 09:29 AM Report Abuse

And what happens if weve complained about a slight increase to living expenses now, when later we are going to have to pay enormous costs to adapt to massive changes to the environment?

Are we so selfish to only worry about the minor things now when our children and their children and so on will have to bear the costs of our stingyness? The predicted household changes are around $10 a week and yes the majority of people will be compensated for this as an incentive for them to get behind renewable energy.

Australia is in a rare position where we can act, and as we have the most pollution per head in the entire world we have a responsibility to do so.

Regardless of whether you agree that climate change is a massive issue or not, it isnt hard to see that there needs to be a change in attitude towards the development and ecnouragement of renewable energy sources. We cannot continue to chew through resources with no thought for the future.

Frances 22/07/11 10:06 AM Report Abuse

John please explain to us how if we are taxed to pay for this, that we can be compensated?

That sounds more like borrowing from Peter to pay Paul to me. It is also known as 'redistribution of wealth' the last I heard that was a communist policy, and as we know from the Russian experiment with Communism it failed very badly. And if Julia Gillard and Bob Brown get this passed as law, our children and grandchildren etc., will be paying the price for generations to come. When there has not been any real scientific evidence cited at all to prove that there is any man made 'global warming' or as they now call it Climate Change.

There has been 'Climate Change' happening for as long as I have lived, and that is 70 years. The Pollution is nowhere near as bad these days, I remember when it was really awful. So what exactly do the Greenies thanks to Al Gore really think can be accomplished. Carbon dioxide is a 'Green House' gas. Do you know what Green Houses do? They are used to 'grow plants'. Without Green House gases our planet would be barren of plant life. Carbon Dioxide which is the Green House gas Julia Gillard wants to get rid of keeps our planet supplied with food. So what she and Bob Brown (funny name that for a greenie) want to do is 'Brown' our planet.

The last global warming event when there was no' human' cause for it, saved the planet from the Ice Age. I am a very strange person because I believe that there is a God and that He is the one responsible for the earth and our weather, not Bob Brown or Queen Julia. Last I heard the insurance companies still call floods etc., Acts of God!


"What Defines An Act Of God In Most Car Insurance Policies


An act of god is a term used in contracts and by insurance policies to represent any natural disaster outside of human control, aka floods, volcanoes, hurricanes and other such related events. As the term is used rather broadly, it can be sometimes be difficult to know what exactly comes under the term Act of god, and how it relates to particular fields; like car insurance. Insurance policies differ vastly, especially concerning automobiles, yet most car insurance quotes will cover this under comprehensive insurance. "

AWAKE 22/07/11 12:40 PM Report Abuse

Frances, if being a moron was a university degree you would be the head of the department. How can you honestly say that man has no impact to climate change? Ignorance is no excuse. There are plenty of "Naysayers" but not one of them are actual ecological scientists. AND the carbon price is applicable to the top 500 polluting companies .. who release MILLIONS of tonnes every year of poisonous gases into our atmosphere. Carbon Dioxide is plant food... but in the doses the planet is getting, our plants can't absorb it because there aren't any more tree's.

God doesn't pay tax and if he did, he would have the biggest carbon bill of them all.

We are the ones who have to take responsibility for our actions and try and rectify the damage we do to the planet not pass it off to an omnipotent "solve all" super power ...

You are afraid of change, that is a natural human response, but it is easy to tear down an idea rather than take action. So sit back in your chair of judgement and say your meaningless words, because unless get up off your high horse and help the world, you are not a part of it ...

John 22/07/11 12:54 PM Report Abuse

and God created Adam to look after the earth (Genesis 2:7, 15-16)

John 22/07/11 12:56 PM Report Abuse

so look after it, don't say its out of our hands

John 22/07/11 01:01 PM Report Abuse

I think Jesus would say yes to a carbon tax. Maybe if someone creates some sort of psudeo Jesus based miracle it might change Tony's mind. I think tin foil, glitter and some fairy lights would be enough for his small miind to think Jesus is trying to tell him something

Neil 22/07/11 01:10 PM Report Abuse

Dear Fred,

As you like referencing wiki, do check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas Nitrous oxide IS a greenhouse gas.
And as you mentioned, sulfur dioxide and nitrous oxide cause acid rain.
Acid rain still occurs in many countries, and although it may be the worst effect of the century, why do you want your grand children and children to live under awful conditions?

Also whilst we are talking about clean coal, there is not a single working commercial clean coal plant in existance, and the International Energy Association doesn't think that it will be possible within the next 25-50 years, if at all. If you love coal so much why don't you live in latrobe valley, which the pollution is so bad that the people who live there have 25 x the change of lung disease and other health problems. You do love acid rain and pollution so much.

Nick 22/07/11 01:28 PM Report Abuse

MessageAWAKE, if being a moron was a university degree, YOU WOULD BE the head of the department. Please don’t use the name awake because you are still asleep.

“There are plenty of "Naysayers" but not one of them are actual ecological scientists.” What about the 30,000 scientists and climatologists in the US alone that disagree with the whole AGW/Climate change theory.

This is not the way you respond to a 70 year old who has far more life experience than your self. You are the Moron and I’m disgusted with your reply. The carbon price is applicable to the top 500 polluting companies which will pass the cost on to us the consumer in other words we the consumer will pay the cost. If you don’t know this then what can I say except that you are probably some snotty nose little rich kid just out of Uni who has never paid a bill in your life.

“These Companies release MILLIONS of tonnes every year of poisonous gases into our atmosphere” Since when did Carbon Dioxides become a Poisonous Gas do you even know what they are trying to TAX. You must be one of the very few people that still believe they are trying to TAX Carbon Monoxides “Pollution” You probably believe they are trying to reduce Pollution “Carbon Monoxides” because your mate JULIER insists on calling it a TAX ON POLLUTION.

“Carbon Dioxide is plant food... but in the doses the planet is getting, our plants can't absorb it because there aren't any more trees.” Go do the research where ever there is a high concentration of Carbon dioxides our vegetation flourishes Hence producing better and quicker food for you and me to eat. There are more forests and trees than populated areas so what do you mean there aren’t anymore trees, I can count at least 50 trees by looking outside of my window.

Nick 22/07/11 02:03 PM Report Abuse

John, the predicted household changes are around $10 a week, that’s rubbish there is no model like the one they are proposing to put on Australia anywhere in the world so we have nothing to compare it to, so how can they even predict this. At least the GST we were able to study other models that where in place from other economies.

Nick 22/07/11 02:06 PM Report Abuse

John, This Government projects that it will collect 11 Billion dollar in the first year alone 10% 1.1 Billion Dollars of our money will leave our economy and go to the UN doesn’t that bother you? When carbon trading starts more money will leave our economy by buying carbon Credits in other words by paying money to overseas companies to buy these credits, doesn’t this alarm you? Doesn’t this feel like it’s a redistribution of wealth based on a theory that not all scientists believe. Besides science is only based on theories and is somewhat fact until the next scientist comes along and proves that, that theory to be incorrect and we adopt the new theory as fact and so on.

Nick 22/07/11 02:10 PM Report Abuse

John, You agree to be taxed on a Gas which is invisible to the naked eye, how do we even police such a thing how do we even know that we will be TAXED in an honest way.
Does it not bother you that 10% of the TAX will go to the UN how do we know that they will not ask for more in the future.

AWAKE 22/07/11 02:16 PM Report Abuse

Well at least you can count to 50 Nick.

But seriously, I couldn't agree with you more. Everything you said was the epitomy of a great argument, save for one thing. I never finished high school. Here you are, a 70 year old genius arguing with a semi-bluddy illiterate high school drop out, as if we were equals.

I am also glad you found the holes in my argument, only to replace them with your own. What a machiavellian stroke of combatant superiority. It has become quite clear that as my intellectual superior you obviously have all the answers and I eagerly await your solution to rectify climate change ... oh hang on ... according to you it is things of economic manipulation, a fantasy land that the governments of the world have designed to lord over the little man. How about this Nick, given that you are 70, perhaps you don't give a crap what happens to the planet and you just want to clutch at your pennies like a miser and never celebrate christmas... HO HO HO

AWAKE 22/07/11 02:34 PM Report Abuse

"there is no model like the one they are proposing to put on Australia anywhere in the world so we have nothing to compare it to, so how can they even predict this."

Do you mean like europe ??? its a little place just off the coast of wagga wagga ..

John 22/07/11 02:42 PM Report Abuse

What are you on about Nick?

The carbon credits will be bought from our government for the first 3 years not from overseas? and then after that Australians are going to be able to generate carbon credits to sell to the big companies themselves through the carbon farming initiative and other means.

Half of the money generated by the government by these companies buying carbon permits is going back into incentives and grant programs to drive businesses and individuals to renewable energy and the other half into increasing pensions and making tax cuts.

The EU, Canada, New Zealand, China and many states in the US already have carbon pricing mechanisms. In fact much of the research and initital drafting of this carbon price was begun under the Howard government.

Nick 22/07/11 03:13 PM Report Abuse

I'm not a 70 year old you num nut, Europe collected 11 Billion dollars in 6 years from 500 million people Gilied want's to collect 11 Billion Dollars in just 12 Months from 22 million people how is it the same. Europe is not off the coast of waga waga it's overseas in tasmania. You don't need to wait eagerly for my solution to rectify climate change the planet has been rectifying itself for millions of years it doesn't need mine or your help.

John 22/07/11 04:07 PM Report Abuse

We have the largest pollution per person of the entire world so perhaps those measures are necessary to change our attitude.

For millions of years the planet hasnt had a really large population of humans pumping tonnes and tonnes and tonnes of extra CO2 and other gases into the atmosphere. It has had natural processes that have balanced themselves. It doesnt have a built in "humans being lazy" adaptation function.

Frances 22/07/11 04:16 PM Report Abuse

John what planet are you from? And what planet are all you illiterate mugs from? Take of the Green glasses, you might be able to see more clearly. This whole Carbon Tax Scam is the brainchild of the very very wealthy Al Gore, let him pay those taxes? BTW I will pay for them too even though I am an Age Pensioner, because every time I have to pay my power and gas bills the Carbon tax will be included in the price.

Everytime all of us buy just about anything we will be taxed, and taxed and taxed, and ask your Union buddies how they are doing after they get the sack from the Latrobe Valley when the Coal mining is closed down. The first people who will be hit by Bob Brown's Carbon Tax will be the Laborers, the companies they work for will move off shore where there is no Carbon Tax, and there will be more people on the dole. Even some of the Unions are finally waking up to that fact.

But Julia Gillard and Bob Brown won't be worried they and the so called Independents who sold their souls for the NBN, will soon see that their voters won't be able to afford to use it. And those who voted for them, will ensure that they will never vote for them again, as those farmers etc., lose their farms.

But Gillard and Bob will be happy socking away all the cash they are making out of this.

The worm is turning John. Just you hope it is not a Gippsland sized worm.

Big Daddy 22/07/11 04:31 PM Report Abuse

Whatever !!! Oh No you ditn't ...

You are too big fo yo shoes fashizzle ...

AWAKE 22/07/11 04:35 PM Report Abuse

If I am from another planet why am I the only one trying to save this one !!!

Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when he is called upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason.
Oscar Wilde

Frances 22/07/11 05:03 PM Report Abuse

AWAKE, Did you ever see movie STAR TREK - The Motion Picture? if not I recommend you borrow a copy from a video library or on DVD.

"A sentient, massive entity which threatened Earth in 2271, en route to find its "Creator." In doing so, V'Ger destroyed anything it encountered by digitizing it for its memory chamber.

Generating a power field "cloud" about itself of over 22 AUs in diameter, the entity had gained sentience after unknown aliens repaired the old Earth space probe that formed its core — Voyager 6, whose name in corrupted English gave the sentience its name.

The entity, which viewed organic lifeforms as carbon-based units "infesting" starships, later joined with Starfleet's Lt. Ilia and Cmdr."

We human being are Carbon Based lifeforms, and those who promote this Tax are like this intelligent now alien vessel, which did not recognise that it had encountered its creators, human beings.

Yeah I am a 70 year old Trekkie fan, from the first episode of Star Trek till the last.

WendyS 22/07/11 05:14 PM Report Abuse

This is the problem Nick, the information out there is contradictory - some scientists do actually disagree. And you could be right in the end, who's to say the government won't change their mind (as is their track record) and change the tax to suit themselves when they need more $$

Did you ever think what would happen to the world with less CO2 emissions? there's always a repercussion and not always the way you think it will be.

Did you also notice Nick, how personal people get around this issue? the pro-CT are very aggressive... end of world stuff huh? Obviously strong feelings which warrants a national vote methinks.

And by the way; The clean air act - does not support this tax, every day people were exempt from this legislation. I quote:

"Non-application of this Act
4. (1) This Act does not apply to, or in relation to, the process, or an appliance used in the process, of preparing food or beverages in a private household."

Big fan by the way Frances - good comments and a lot be learnt from Star Trek - well ahead of its time. I'm sure the "Ferengi" are representative of the Greens/labor government!!

WendyS 22/07/11 05:22 PM Report Abuse

AWAKE - based on this comment - "If I am from another planet why am I the only one trying to save this one !!"

I'd give it up if I were you Luv... if you are the only person trying to save the planet, you'd be locked away and labelled mad.

The planet doesn't need your saving, it's managed without you for millions of years. Climate change will eventually be seen for what it is - a global scandal of mass proportions... it's already coming unstuck as people "awaken" to the truth.

Nick 22/07/11 05:49 PM Report Abuse

Awake, you must be from another planet because you have no regard for human life, just like your Green mates. Protect the environment at any cost even if it means at the cost of human life.

Frances 22/07/11 06:00 PM Report Abuse

We had those terrible bushfires here in Victoria, because of the Greenies, they arranged to legally ban the collection by bush walkers, of dead wood, from the bush floor that created extra fuel for the bushfires we suffered here in Victoria. My son used to go hiking with some of his mates and the mate who arranged these hikes complained abouta few years ago, that it was a bushfire waiting to happen. So we can blame those Victorian bushfires on the Greenies too. All those human lives lost, and the homes to say nothing of the dead wildlife. Good One Greenies you outdid yourselves. We need to bring back commonsense!

Frances 23/07/11 12:29 AM Report Abuse

Hi Wendy, nice to meet a fellow Trekkie. I think you may have something there about the Greenies/Labor and the Ferengi. I must agree the Ferengis greed, and this Labor / Green government's Greed are very similar. With those traitorous so called Independents running a very close 3rd.

Frances 23/07/11 08:47 PM Report Abuse

The Last Carbon Taxer

See this article at the Wall Street Journal.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304203304576447910279095574.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Bill Northwood 23/07/11 09:47 PM Report Abuse

Thanks for the link Frances. The Wall Street Journal pretty much summed up what most Australians believe which is backed up by the polls. It's not about saving the environment, it's about the Labour Party getting to the next election and being able to say the budget is back in surplus after their huge spend-up and the only way to do that is with another very large tax.

Dianne 25/07/11 09:04 AM Report Abuse

How could you trust Julia Gillard. She says one thing, and does another. Quite apart from that, look what she did to Kevin Rudd, behind his back. pfft I wouldn't trust her as far as I could throw her. The attitude in the ad, "It is going through" fullstop. So arrogant.

zara 25/07/11 06:57 PM Report Abuse

what has gillard got in it for us?
this needs to end.
it's unfair and we should be the ones getting nice things not watching julia gillard paying millions of dollars just to advertise about the stupid carbon tax!!!
i wish that julia goolia was not even elected in the first place.
when we were voting, she promised us good things but now we are done for and there is nothing we can say that will change her MIND!
i am not even a teen yet and i can still understand what is happening. she needs to be stopped
she is sooooooo arrogant!!

Wendy 25/07/11 08:04 PM Report Abuse

Zara, Gillard wasn't actually elected by the majority- neither the Libs nor Labor had enough seats in senate so she formed government with the Greens to hold power and the independents helped her do it. So she now has to bow to Bob Brown and his maniacal demands. the Greens are actually running the country. But I agree, she needs to be stopped.

Frances, in response, maybe the Independents could be aligned with the "Vidiians" (as organ harvesting is their main core business) Labor to the Kazon (all about wanting more than they can handle or know what to do with) and the Greens are definitely akin to "Species 8472" truly alien and from another dimension not even in the Delta quadrant, but from fluid space in this sector!

As per the polls... Not many people relate to this government - totally Alien.

Samantha 26/07/11 09:34 AM Report Abuse

Your not a greenie simply because you back the carbon price.

You also don't need to believe in climate change if you dont want to.

You don't even need to be Julias biggest fan.

The basics of the matter are that Australia cannot continue to burn through resources the way we do. We will run out and we will end up like so many third world countries who have used up, will use up or export nearly all of their resources with no thought for the future.

This carbon price is an incentive to turn to technology before things get sticky.
We need to be looking at sustainable technology regardless of anything else. Not to do so would be plain stupid. And obviously we need an incentive to do so, we should be using the carbon price as an opportunity to change whilst there will be support in the form of grants, initiative and other funding from the government.

Abbot should be proposing something better if he thinks this is bad. Rather than just saying how terrible it is with no thought for the future himself.

Dianne 26/07/11 09:51 AM Report Abuse

Julie Gillard is the one who is scary. A person who says one thing and does another is Very Scary.

Nick 26/07/11 09:51 AM Report Abuse

Samantha You Are Wrong,
Like Wendy said on another blog.

People have to ask themselves why this tax is so high, the highest in the world in fact;

"The EU has a limited carbon trading scheme and does not compete with most Australian exports. It is more relevant to compare Australia to resource exporting countries like the USA, Canada, South Africa, China, Indonesia and Brazil. None of these countries have a national carbon tax and none have plans to introduce one any time soon. Australia will be out on its own with the biggest carbon tax in the world.”

“All the emission reductions Australia plans to make will be dwarfed by the emissions made by much larger countries.

For example, by 2020 it will take China just 78 hours and 25 minutes to replace Australia's projected emission savings by 2020.”

What’s the real agenda for Gillard? If China can replace the emissions we save in a few hours, is it worth the $71 Billion dollars the government will make from us in 6 years?…

It has nothing to do with Carbon emissions.

Wendy 26/07/11 10:09 AM Report Abuse

You're right Nick.

If it's about pollution, then make it about that... Don't label a gas essential for life such as Carbon Dioxide as a pollutant because it suits your agenda. This government has gone too far in their assumption that people are basically stupid and believe that the more they say it, the more people will believe. They have underestimated Australians and the polls reflect this. Gillard won't call an early election as she morally should because she needs to time to sell this "lemon" of a tax. They really need to be held accountable for the wastage we've witnessed to date and not given any more money to waste. They have damaged and will continue to damage the country economically.

If we can't price carbon or pollution without damaging our already unstable economy, then what happens when we can't pay for this tax because we will be akin to a third world country... how is this good for future generations?

The planet survived for millions of years without the Greens and Labor - we went through 2 industrial revolutions over 200 years with worse pollution than what we have now - the planet survived and will continue to long after our future generations. A tax won't change that.

Frank 26/07/11 11:39 AM Report Abuse

It is absolutely not essential for life in the amounts that we are currently emmitting on a daily basis. The amounts that are essential for life are those that natural processes create.

Reginald 26/07/11 11:53 AM Report Abuse

Why do people keep speaking of hidden agenda's and revenue raising. WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WE ARE IN AN ECOLOGICAL CRISIS ??? More tsunami's ?? bigger earthquakes ??? Hotter temperatures ??? More ice to melt ? More land to be consumed with rising water levels??? More species dying off ???

You talk of economic rationalism, but what world are you going to be proud of when you have lots of cash and no planet to speak of. The only responsible answer but to stop polluting ... Stop being selfish and minig the world and burning dangerous materials ... If you think this is some giant money scam then you are ignorant and deluding yourself. There are a lot of people, at the top of the financial food chain, who make money off strip mining the planet who stand to lose a lot... and they should... they steal from our future .... Those people also have fingers in media pies ... so I am not suprised by the level of indoctrination of false information in the media is presenting itself now ...

What harm could be had by using renewable energy, by replacing dirty toxic power plants with clean efficient renewable power plants ...

I hope that Tony Abbot ends up actually standing up for something one day, as opposed to tearing down other people. Because the person who I will vote for is the person who will stand up for my country and do what is needed and not what is popular.

Esther 26/07/11 11:56 AM Report Abuse

I am quite old, and I admit I don't understand a lot of this whole carbon thing.. But I remember a time when you could swim in the yarra in melbourne. I would like to see some of the beauty return to the skies, instead of this smog.

Margaret 26/07/11 12:20 PM Report Abuse

here here,

I'm with Reginald

Nick 26/07/11 02:23 PM Report Abuse

Reginal,
What are you on about Ecological Crisis Says Who? What about the timing of this TAX how the Global financial crisis what about the second Global Financial Crisis we may possibly have.

More tsunamis, what about the great floods that occurred in the past remember even the religious books talk about it, remember in the times of Noah. Bigger Earth Quakes like that hasn’t happened before on a much bigger scale plus Earth Quakes are not caused by Carbon Dioxides so what do you mean??? Hotter Temperatures, It’s a fact that can’t be hidden anymore that temperature have stoped rising since 1998 in fact they have declined a little. Why do you think they changed the word from A Global Warming To a Climate Change? Because Europe has been experiencing some of the coldest winters in the past few years, they decided to change the word because the word A Global Warming could no longer Work. “More land to be consumed with rising water Levels” Water Levels have not risen and that is a fact this a ridiculous claim with absolutely no proof.

“Stop being selfish and stop Mining” Well your mate Gillard and her Government this year signed a deal with BP to drill near the coast of WA it's a deep sea drilling project for OIL and GAS does this sound that they are even interested in renewable energy. Do a Google search for your self type in the words "BP drilling permit sparks outrage" Or "BP deep sea drilling Australia" this never really made the mainstream news but it happened. The Gulf of Mexico oil spill by BP Could become reality in our waters one day but our government gave them a permit to drill. Do you still Trust them now?

Reginald 26/07/11 02:41 PM Report Abuse

Nick,

Neuveu Google Science is not research. You are not a scientist, you google things. You have an opinion that you were given by a string of websites designed to validate your opinion. I doubt you do searches backing up your opponents thinking.

Its not a game of who has the most scientists ... its a fact... and the whole cold thing ... Have you ever heard of La nina or el nino ??? Its an ebb and flow. You say Gillard is the enemy, well I think your enemy is awareness.

Nick 26/07/11 02:49 PM Report Abuse

Reginal,
I have searched both sides of science but if you have another way to search information without using the internet or Google please let us know.
And I am aware of what is happening because I have learned to think outside of the square I would like to give you information as I intended but this site won't let me, it keeps telling me to check for profanities even though there isn't any so that was the best I could do so that my post could get through.

Nick 26/07/11 02:57 PM Report Abuse

Reginal,
And yes, Gillied is a liar, so she is the enemy, this wasn't a broken promise this was a lie which had an affect on the outcome of the last election, and because I am an adamant Liberal voter I feel cheated.

Nick 26/07/11 03:11 PM Report Abuse

Remember, Howard let us vote for a republic, He gave us a vote something that this Government is refusing to do.

Wendy 26/07/11 03:13 PM Report Abuse

Neither are you Reginald,

Where does your opinion come from? have you read anything other than what you're fed? I think your closed-mindedness is a lack of awareness and reflective of the mind set of the minority in support of this tax.

Try reading the productivity commissions report, engaged by Bill Shorten: just one extract here (but if you care to read the whole thing you'll find many more)

"Some policies promote other domestic objectives (such as revenue raising or
reducing local pollution), while having the ‘by-product’ effect of achieving
emissions reductions. (This issue is more likely to arise for policies that are not
explicitly intended to target greenhouse gas emissions, such as fuel excise.) Where
such policies deliver domestic benefits and would have been undertaken regardless
of their impact on greenhouse gas emissions, the marginal costs of any associated
abatement will be negligible. Given that policies can have multiple objectives and
that it in most cases it is not possible to decompose abatement estimates (or for that matter costs), it is arguable how much can or should be attributed to abatement objectives."

Wendy 26/07/11 03:26 PM Report Abuse

Or what about Scientists who don't agree? (another extract for you)

"Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide
Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine

ABSTRACT A review of the research literature concerning the environmental consequences of increased levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide leads to the conclusion that increases during the 20th and early 21st centuries have produced no deleterious effects upon Earth’s weather and climate. Increased carbon dioxide has, however, markedly increased plant growth. Predictions of harmful climatic effects due to future increases in hydrocarbon use and minor greenhouse gases like CO2 do not conform to current experimental knowledge."

So which Science do you believe? how can you give absolutes?... neither can the scientists for or against Climate change - have you researched everything? if so, and you're happy with it - good for you, but if people disagree with you, then at least respect their right to an opinion.

The whole issue warrants a healthy debate "Healthy" meaning, hearing all sides of the argument, not just what this government wants us to hear.

Wendy 26/07/11 03:38 PM Report Abuse

Further to your comment Reginald; most people in Science do know what El Niño is.

Definition being "the situation when sea surface temperatures in the central to eastern Pacific Ocean are significantly warmer than normal. This recurs every three to eight years and is generally associated with a strong negative phase in the Southern Oscillation pendulum."

You failed to add that this is a naturally occurring phenomenon. So what's your point in terms of ebb and flow?

Nick 26/07/11 03:57 PM Report Abuse

Yes Wendy, Thank you are so correct,

You said "So which Science do you believe? How can you give absolutes?... neither can the scientists for or against Climate change"

This is what no one seems to understand that science is based on theories and theories are sometimes looked up on as facts, even if you want to look at it as fact, it can only be fact until the next scientist come along and proves that fact or theory as wrong and then science adapts the new theory as fact.

A perfect example of this is when someone gave my daughter an old science book, I thought it was great because I love science but when I opened the book and started reading I realised that all the information was incorrect, I was amazed how wrong it was. I went to the front cover and realised that it was written in the early 70's so that explained it, I had to tell her to throw it way because 90% of the book was wrong.

Samantha 26/07/11 04:53 PM Report Abuse

Again,

It really doesn't matter too much about what sciencific theory you support.

There is no denying that resources mined from the earth will eventually run out.

If there is no shift towards renewable energy then these resources will run out more quickly.

When these resources run out and we havent turned to technology and innovation quickly enough we will be in big trouble.

This carbon pricing mechanism is designed to be big. To push for a big shift as quickly as possible. The money is being put back into household assistance and renewable energy so it is simply feeding back to Australians in a form that promotes thinking of renewable energy and sustainability. This will be especially good for farmers and Australians with land because of the carbon farming initiative. and communities because of the climate change grant programs.

Those countries that have made this shift as early as possible and changed their attitudes will be at the forefront of renewable energy and leaders in sustainable thinking

Wendy 26/07/11 05:15 PM Report Abuse

So the science doesn't matter? this has been the basis and justification for imposing a tax that 75 - 80% of Australians don't want.

Interesting how when the science doesn't fit the tax, the science doesn't matter.

You're missing the point - the real pollutant is being exempt; Petrochemicals, so what then? when we legitimately continue to pollute the planet because CO2 doesn't make a difference.

Where's the logic in this and why do you think people are against this tax?

Wendy 26/07/11 05:23 PM Report Abuse

Our mining is just being shifted overseas - so Australia now loses their competitiveness in this area, pays significantly for a tax that won't make a bit of difference.

This sounds quite typical of all Labor's failed policies - they have proven track record. The insulation debacle, the stimulus package, the school halls, the NBN... the list goes on.

Then again, I concede - I may be wrong... This policy out of every other failed ones may work, albeit they are taxing us for breathing ... not for any relevant pollutents. Yep, they're likely on a winner here.

Do you really trust this government?

Nick 26/07/11 08:50 PM Report Abuse

Samantha,
It is absolutely unbelievable how you are thinking, save the planet at any cost aye, even if it means at the cost of human lives or human suffering. What don’t you understand, We can’t afford another TAX we are one of the highest TAXED countries in the world, there is no money left most of us are struggling, wages have remained the same. Why should Australia lead they way to this lunacy we are only 22 million people we can’t save the world, No other Country in the world has such an expensive TAX, no other Country in the world is even thinking about it. They are not trying to clean the air nor are they trying to TAX Pollution, there is not even any other model like this in the world to compare it to, so we don’t even know if it will work and may send Australia Bankrupt.

Bill Northwood 26/07/11 09:47 PM Report Abuse

I totally agree Nick. Many supporters of the tax seem to think that it will just slightly reduce everyone's surplus income but they don't realise that many don't have any surplus or luxuries that they can cut back on and a new tax will result in a decision to have to cut either food, heating or medications. The tax will affect so many things that the proposed changes to income tax and pension increase won't even come close to covering it and getting it wrong by even $10 per week will devastate many. This tax will do little to help the environment but will affect the health of many of the poorest and increase the gap between rich and poor - something that the Labour party have traditionally been all about closing not widening. It's a crazy Government even for a former Labour supporter like me.

Wendy 26/07/11 10:21 PM Report Abuse

Bill and Nick... the voices of reason... thank you both for your logic and a reality check.

I applaud you and 100% agree.

Darren 27/07/11 12:32 AM Report Abuse

I agree with Samantha

Mr Abbots "direct action" plan can only be called direct. Apart from that its useless. Based on previous schemes like this, they tend to go significantly go over budget, produce very little or rather expensive results and take much longer to implement. In fact a leading economist calculated that if we were to use direct action scheme to gain the same results as a carbon tax, it would cost $143 a ton with no compensation for people.

Now of course this isn't going to persuade the stout liberals; but those who are concerned about doing something to stop the worst of climate change (which is actually quite scary) then maybe you should think of what the other choices to a carbon tax are.

The direct action plan which would either do little or nothing or cost a lot more than a carbon tax; or the greens shut it all down idea (if for some super strange reason they win).

And if for, some strange reason, it turns out that 97% of all credible scientists in the world are wrong and climate change isn't a problem. Lets do a really basic risk assessment. Worse case scenario of not doing anything: end of civilization as we know it (basically).
Worse case scenario if we do do something: People lose their jobs, Aussies lose their beloved status as one of the most well off people, and yes I imagine some people do die.

I don't know about you, but I know which worse case scenario I would take. So come on. Stop sitting on your hands and hope/wait for some scientist to come up with a theory you can start believing is fact, and do something. Cause everything we do now, will put us ahead in the future.

Wendy 27/07/11 07:56 AM Report Abuse

So the emails that were hacked between the Scientists from East Anglia's Climate research facility, some between the scientists and Al Gore himself don't warrant any query or further investigation? Oh don't worry, there's already a spin on this so climate change fanatics can still continue with the diatribe.

97% of Scientists do not agree with the science. In fact all agree that the climate is changing, but the point of dissension is whether its man-made and all agree that CO2 emissions are the least significant out of the green house gases. The argument is still a theory - and laws such as radical economic ones like we have with the CT should not be made on the basis of a theory.

Even Labor's own productivity commissions report states that any Carbon tax which is created with an exempt on fuel excise is a "revenue generating" policy and will do little in contributing to abatement.

I do care about the climate and I don't trust this government or any for that matter to really do anything about it. I also prefer the facts and all information forthcoming as opposed to what this government wants me to believe. Their track record in rolling out any policy speaks for itself.

We won't be ahead in the future if the real pollutant (Carbon Monoxide) is exempt - we are shifting the problem to other countries, so while we ruin our economy - how does this help the planet?

The problem with fanatics is; there's no room to query anything, if people question the science they are in denial - if they want more proof on the theory, they are labelled ignorant - while fanatics take a small part of the science and twist it to suit their agenda. The government works this way and will only take the science that fits in with their revenue generating agenda.

Wendy 27/07/11 08:10 AM Report Abuse

By the way; we've been hearing the "end of world" scenario for many years now by the fanatics... people are quite desensitized to it now.

So if the end of world doesn't come, will it be because of the Carbon Tax? So our illustrious PM has saved the planet with her Carbon Tax? Australia, a big desert island with only 22 Million people saved the planet because Labor had a vision and Bob Brown will get his 1 global government due to paying the UN the hard earned $$ of Aussies?

There is no convincing argument in favor of this tax, because it's wrong and it's about revenue generation and not about protecting the planet. If i twas, fuel excise would be included.

Nick 27/07/11 09:14 AM Report Abuse

Darren,
All I can say is thank GOD there is only a small % of people like you and unfortunately we have 2 of them in Government right now. I suppose you are one of those people that pretend they care about Human Life I bet you donate to save African Children, a do gouda on the out side but the devil himself on the inside. Even the devil himself is very convincing and appears to want to help mankind when in fact he wants’ to destroy it.

Your type of people have been around for thousands of years so I think it’s fair to say that most of us have awoken to your kind and your days are limited most people now days have learned to think for themselves and make their own decisions.

What our kind wants is peace harmony, Love and equality and we value human life over everything, in other words human life comes first, we are not prepared to make radical decisions at the cost of human life.

You are a true Num Nut with no compassion for Human Life and if you think this is the worst of climate change ever you have obviously not read your history books and you know nothing about Science, and you are one of the very few sheep that are left in the herd.

Wendy 27/07/11 09:32 AM Report Abuse

Well said Nick, it's about people and lives and the environment can be looked after by all with a bit of education, laws can be put in place to this effect - but stripping an already struggling economy will only line the pockets of this government so that they can realize the ambitions of one crazy minister (Bob Brown)

The PM had to have this tax, just like Keating gave us the recession we had to have. She needs this tax because the Greens use her like a puppet, they have more power in the senate and this has Bob Brown written all over it. They also need to get the country back into surplus after their mass wastage ... so effectively Australians are paying significantly for their incompetence.

Australia did not vote for the Greens nor Labor - the Libs actually had more seats but not enough to govern so the people had their say... they voted... they did not want this government and they should not have to bear more hardships with a "Pseudo" government in power only because of a loop hole in the Australian constitution..

Nick 27/07/11 09:52 AM Report Abuse

Yes Wendy, and we all know we have to evetually move away from fossil fuels but it takes time we can't switch them off over night it takes time because of the way we have based our economies around fossil fuels, if we were to swith them off overnight the world would go into the worse global depression we have ever seen. We need to faze out of fossil fuels slowly as new technology is discovered, so i have no idea how a TAX will fix the problem and that is if we actually do have a problem. If we did have such a serious problem and the end of the world was near don't you think the world leaders would get together and round up some of the finest scientists from each country in the world and let them work together to save the planet and humanity, we see it in the movies doesn't anyone believe that they would put the theory into practice, i don't know about everyone else that seems to be logical to me.

Samantha 27/07/11 11:24 AM Report Abuse

Nick - "I suppose you are one of those people that pretend they care about Human Life I bet you donate to save African Children, a do gouda on the out side but the devil himself on the inside."

and Wendy - "well said nick"

WOW. What a terrible thing to do donating to African Children, it really shows you are in league with the Devil doesnt it. Those African children should be able to look after themselves with all their money and resources. It really shows that Darren is a terrible person. And also very relevant to the issue of sustainability and carbon pricing too I can see your connection there.

And Wendy - "Well said Nick, it's about people and lives and the environment can be looked after by all with a bit of education"

Why dont you educate yourself a little better.

Jebus 27/07/11 11:45 AM Report Abuse

Nick and wendy,
You are obviously the kind of people that think that donating to kids in africa is a useless venture... so why help them at all. You are members of the "problem is too big, no-one can do anything" "WHY TRY" ...

The true power to change the world exists in your hands..

Nick 27/07/11 12:28 PM Report Abuse

Samntha And Jebus you obviously are both Num Nuts because you took it the wrong way by not understanding what i meant and yes i do donate money and i do sponsor a child. I care about African children and Humanity more than both of you, so don't worry about that. It's probably because of nut cases as your selves that they are starving by turning thier food suply it into Fuel.

But don't worry guy's you keep pretending you can't fool us because we can see through your true agenda and lies.

Wendy 27/07/11 12:31 PM Report Abuse

How quickly we assume...

The truth be known, I sponsor 4 children from different parts of the world and ensure that the company I own sponsors another 2 children.

I donate heavily to many worthy foundations. I also donate to protection of Lions in Africa and the H back whale as well as donate for research into the protected animals insurance breeding program.

If I have an opinion that climate change is still a theory and this government is completely useless and money hungry and that puts me in the league with the dark side... then so be it. I'll happily wear the title.

I believe in these causes and have been for over 20 years - I have also studied the science as is my background, if I believed this tax was good for our planet and country, I would support it.

So what have you done for the world lately, outside of reverberating the government's half truths that is?

Frances 27/07/11 12:43 PM Report Abuse

Well said Wendy. Why do these people on their 'Greenie kick' like to pretend that they are the only ones who care for the state of the world, and the plight of the needy? I guess it gives them the 'warm fuzzies' to think that they are better than the next person, and they alone have all the answers to the world's problems.

Nick 27/07/11 01:04 PM Report Abuse

Samantha it’s because of people like you and your lunatic Green friends that so many innocent Australians died in the Bushfires in Victoria because of lunatic policies which have no regard for human life. HOW DO YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT.

Did you even read what Francis said on a previous post?
I quote>
We had those terrible bushfires here in Victoria, because of the Greenies, they arranged to legally ban the collection by bush walkers, of dead wood, from the bush floor that created extra fuel for the bushfires we suffered here in Victoria

And you trust these people to take care of our Environment who have no consideration towards human life. I’d rather take my chances that the world might end if we do nothing, I think I have a better chance for survival.

Wendy 27/07/11 01:16 PM Report Abuse

Too true Frances,

It's the height of arrogance to believe that as humans we have all the answers and are capable of changing the universe... this government doesn't do it, they merely use the mindless in our society, with no original thought of their own to shout their half truths and hidden agendas on the unsuspecting masses.

The science still isn't right, but we can't question this or we're ignorant - I abhor attitudes which use only that part of the science which suits them and leaves everything else.

Bill Northwood 27/07/11 01:21 PM Report Abuse

You are so right Wendy.

Jebus 27/07/11 02:28 PM Report Abuse

Nick, when your nads drop you give us a call at the adult table. Your mathematic skills of 1 +1 = a Window might work in grade 3, but your attempt at undermining our viewpoint by stating that we pretty much started the bushfires. Another thing, I am not a greenie, I am a human being who would like to live passed france's age.

For peopole who act as if you are free from judgement or assumption you sure play the part of ignorant quite well. You assume because you donate money to a charity that you are a decent human being ... I've spent the last 7 years working for the salvation army counselling sexually abused children, if donating you're one cup of coffee appeases your internal sense of justice whilst you count your pennies on the carbon scheme you go ahead. But for all your white collar heirarchical ignorance, you are still a human being, still breathing shared air... and still counting your pennies not wanting to ACTUALLY HELP AT ALL ...

So sit in your ivory tower of assumed superiority to us, we made no intimations that we were better than anyone, we just want to help create a better future.

When you pull your political allegances aside, you will realise this is an issue not about money but about our environment. And if you label everyone who cares about our country and planet as greenies, then you are YET AGAIN .. missing the point.

Reginald 27/07/11 02:34 PM Report Abuse

The reason they don't understand what you are saying Jebus is that it is not in a spreadsheet with lovely flowing diagrams and flow charts. Perhaps if you send them a memo on the climate they might look out thier window to realise that thier high rise building is still situated on planet earth.

When did Liberal become Constrained ??? because you certainly don't act with liberal intentions.

Jebus 27/07/11 02:38 PM Report Abuse

Nick, you stated, and I quote :

"All I can say is thank GOD there is only a small % of people like you and unfortunately we have 2 of them in Government right now. I suppose you are one of those people that pretend they care about Human Life I bet you donate to save African Children, a do gouda on the out side but the devil himself on the inside. Even the devil himself is very convincing and appears to want to help mankind when in fact he wants’ to destroy it."

You sir .. are an idiot. A Do gouda ?? some kind of cheese lover ?? You sure love the cheese in your own words ...

Nick 27/07/11 03:12 PM Report Abuse

So I am an idiot because I care about the future of my children, so I am an idiot because I want my children to be able to afford a house and live the type of life that I have been up until now. You better start working on those Salvation Army skills because you are going to be needed in the future by your own people in Australia.

"if donating you're one cup of coffee appeases your internal sense of justice" it's statements like this and people like you that make me question my actions and make me think if it is worth it and makes me question where the money really goes. MATE THIS IS ALL I CAN AFFORD I'm not rich I am a struggling average Australian little Battler, besides I thought every little bit counts.

Jebus You are the biggest Num Nut so far, in Grade 3, I was taught that Carbon Dioxides was essential for our survival in fact I was continually told that in high school as well but that's ok mate you keep bowing your head to the devil and believe it's an evil GAS. You keep listening to the one side of Science like a good little sheep and let the Adults handle this we understand what this is all about we will try and fix it for you.

Samantha 27/07/11 03:43 PM Report Abuse

Nick, I was simply responding to what you said. If you meant something else you should have said something else, I'm sure you are intelligent enough to realise I cannot read your mind.

Wendy said "How quickly we assume"

I was not assuming anything whatsoever. Why dont you have a look at Nicks post for a massive massive assumption:

"Samantha it’s because of people like you and your lunatic Green friends that so many innocent Australians died in the Bushfires in Victoria because of lunatic policies which have no regard for human life. HOW DO YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT."

or Frances':

"Well said Wendy. Why do these people on their 'Greenie kick' like to pretend that they are the only ones who care for the state of the world, and the plight of the needy? I guess it gives them the 'warm fuzzies' to think that they are better than the next person, and they alone have all the answers to the world's problems. "

or this gem from Nick:

"I care about African children and Humanity more than both of you, so don't worry about that" (wow really Nick? thats not an assumption at all you must have done your research there)

In response to your "assumptions" or 'judgements" which you have based on an opinion about sustainability I have: I am not a greenie and I never said that I was, I do not vote green, nor did I have anything to do with the cause of the Victorian bushfires. I do not support the Greens, or even Julia Gillard in particular.

I will support whoever I feel has the best approach and policies to sustainability and the development of renewable energy technologies in this country, the importance of which only an idiot would deny and about which Tony Abbott does not even have a plan.

Perhaps rather than getting defensive and making ridiculous defensive comments, insults and diversions to avoid the real argument (a bit like Mr Abbott) you could start behaving like adults and concentrate on the real issues.

You are all demonstrating very well how narrow minded and igorant people can be in regards to these issues. And simply proving the point of why this change and incentive towards renewable energy needs to be so drastic in the first place.

Nick 27/07/11 04:04 PM Report Abuse

Samantha,
You raise some very valid points. I know that Julia Gillard has her heart in the right place and I guess I was just affected by Tony and his campaign.

I am sorry if I insulted you at any stage.

Wendy 27/07/11 04:05 PM Report Abuse

Yeah, Nick, I am with you.

You have changed my opinion and my whole perspective on the issue..

I am voting Labour at the next election.

Nick 27/07/11 04:20 PM Report Abuse

Yeah that's clever aye, Using my name and saying sorry on my behalf but that's ok i wanted to apologise to Samantha anyway.

Samantha, you are right I did make assumptions which I shouldn't have I was wrong about you and I’m very sorry for that, I really mean it.

Because this is really a Green policy I tend to assume that who ever supports it is in bed with the Greens so I say sorry to you again.

Samantha, me and allot of people are struggling to make ends meet we have no surplus and we are border lining on financial destruction another TAX will destroy us my business is suffering so if I close down another 8 people will be out of a job. Electricity in Sydney has gone up 80% since 2007 the businesses that I deal with have to cop the extra cost, they can't put up the costs of their goods because they will lose more clientele so they have to cop it sweet and hope something changes.

The Electrical companies have been gearing up for this TAX since 2007 so the lies they are telling us that it will only cost us an extra $10.00 a week does not stack up when you take in consideration that the average house hold cost has gone up by $100.00 a week and don't forget they haven't even passed the TAX yet I can't imagine what will happen when they do.

Please try to understand this TAX will devastate many of us there has to be a better way and judging by the current Governments track record so far it scares me to even think about them handling this, even if it is a good idea they can't be trusted anymore they have caused enough disaster in our economy.

Please try and understand some of us can't afford another TAX at any cost.

Nick 27/07/11 04:24 PM Report Abuse

No Wnedy, That's still the dark side please come back towards the light.

Frances 27/07/11 04:24 PM Report Abuse

Samantha,
I think perhaps I was looking with tired old eyes and couldn't see what was right in front of me. It is good that someone as young as you can put so much of your efforts into helping out old trekkies like me.

Well, I stand corrected, perhaps this caron pricing plan is a good idea after all.

Live long and prosper, human kind.

Jebus 27/07/11 04:29 PM Report Abuse

After giving this allot of thought i realise that you are right and i'm and idiot, i can't help being an idiot because i was born that way. Sorry, you were right and i was wrong.

Tony Abbott 27/07/11 04:48 PM Report Abuse

All you simpletons haven't yet properly grasped my overall perspective.

I don't care how I get into government, as long as I get in ..

If shooting down good idea's is what I have to do, then that is what I will do.

Admittedly I don't have any policies of my own, but as soon as I get voted in I promise to think some up.

Nick 27/07/11 05:17 PM Report Abuse

Julia is that you?

It is you,

I don't care how I get into government, as long as I get in ..

This is what gave it away.

Frances M 27/07/11 06:43 PM Report Abuse

Someone posing as myself (Frances)and using Star Trek allusions. And referencing my age. When we post we have to provide our email address so whoever is doing this will be found out.

quote falsely attributed message.

"Frances 27/07/11 04:24 PM Report Abuse

Samantha,
I think perhaps I was looking with tired old eyes and couldn't see what was right in front of me. It is good that someone as young as you can put so much of your efforts into helping out old trekkies like me.

Well, I stand corrected, perhaps this caron pricing plan is a good idea after all.

Live long and prosper, human kind."
--------------

I may be old, and even have tired eyes, but whoever is doing it you have shot yourself in the foot. I am not brain dead. And nothing would ever convince me to accept the position of Samantha. And yes I have reported your post. Now go back to your master or mistress and tell him or her that you have gone too far.

Whoever did so has just proven how dishonest these left-winger really are. It seems also they have also pretended to be 'Wendy' too, and posted a message above that is contrary to both of our positions. What is Green and Red all over? Bob Brown and Julia Gillard when they lose the next election

Bill Northwood 27/07/11 06:50 PM Report Abuse

It shows a distinct lack of confidence in the ability to contribute a logical debate when one has to resort to impersonating opponents of the carbon tax as a substitute for presenting a credible argument. This says a lot about the merits of such a tax and those that support it.

Frances M 27/07/11 06:55 PM Report Abuse

Captains log: Stardate 1231.21 oh ... wednesday

I have lost my toupe and girdle and cant leave my room. It appears as though people have infiltrated my mind and are using my words against me. I don't know what words are mine anymore and which ones are the imposter ... what if we are both the imposter. This is not working out at all..

Sarah 27/07/11 06:56 PM Report Abuse

Go Frances M! That M will really show that it's you and not the fake Frances. Your savviness on the internet is astounding for your age.

Erika 27/07/11 07:05 PM Report Abuse

Tony Abbott makes me cry. :(

Wendy 27/07/11 08:24 PM Report Abuse

Sorry, I've been working... in meeting to pay bills... that's what grown ups do to support no-hopers like you Darren, Samantha and Jebus. what a drain on society, you should be ashamed of yourselves.

I agree Bill and Frances - interesting how "they" combat an argument with immature crap - perhaps it is as I thought and the pro climate enthusiasts are the youth of the society that haven't paid for their living, but are rather like parasites living off their parents... therefore would likely stoop to the level they have because they have no reasonable, rationale or intelligent come back...

Thank you Darren, Samantha and Jebus... you show your age and immaturity, do your parents know what you're up to?

Wendy 27/07/11 08:42 PM Report Abuse

I think Samantha you need to look at they way you respond as well - no use sensationalizing on what Nick said to win an argument, the mature people in this debate actually see clearly what is meant and respond accordingly.

Again, I ask you - what have you contributed to this planet to date?

Frances, Nick, Bill and myself have... do the best of our ability, we've shared and very likely we've even contributed to paying your dole payments each month... again, I concede, I could be wrong. But people in glass houses should certainly not throw stones. Hypocrisy is the foundation of insincerity and if you want to legitimately debate, then do so without holding to ransom a misrepresentation or contrive a deliberate misunderstanding of the facts, just to win an argument. This will only show your immaturity and give you less power in what you say.

If it is really the truth you want of course? at this point in time, it seems debatable.

Frances M 27/07/11 08:46 PM Report Abuse

Once again the FAKERS are at it again pretending to be regular posters here, and presenting false arguments which are pretty easy to discern, unfortunately you obviously do not know that when you write something here, you leave a footprint, and your IP Number will be different to mine.

You can make it 'appear' that you are me but what you say wil'l give you away every time. So fake Frances M, you are much closer to'Lost in Space than you are to Star Trek. Faking your identity and pretending to be someone else on the Internet is probably an Offense! So be afraid, be very afraid! Because your IP number can be banned.

Frances who knows that Julia Gillard and Bob Brown are sending this nation into financial ruin. And we need an Election soon to rid the country of their Cancer.

Wendy 27/07/11 09:15 PM Report Abuse

Frances and Nick, do you realise how good this is?

Whoever is impersonating us just gives us more power because they still don't have a come back? they can only try to discredit. I feel sorry for the pathetic puppies.

Frances, please don't stress - even if you agreed with the tax, I would still respect your opinion, whether I agreed with you or not because you have 70 years experience and are an amazing individual to be on the internet at your age- well done and good for you.

Frances M 27/07/11 09:31 PM Report Abuse

Hi Wendy, yes they are pretty dumb aren't they if they were in a secure position in government the Labor Party would not have to 'send in the clowns' to pretend to be one of us. So their weakness is showing. Being an Age Pensioner I will still have to pay more for many things if this Carbon Tax becomes law. I am concerned for my children and grandchildren's future in a nation / world destroyed by the Greens and the Labor Party. Already we have seen the Cattle and Coal industries attacked, who do they think will give any of them a job when all the work will be done Off Shore under a Labor / Greens Government, it has already begun. Famous Aussie brands and businesses are now manufacturing things like biscuits in Asia. They destroyed the Aussie clothing manufacturing industry a very long time ago. The reason that Child Care places closed was because people had to find cheaper alternatives than putting their children in a Creche. I hate watch this country going the way of the USA.

Wendy 27/07/11 09:47 PM Report Abuse

Frances, your fears are valid... the reason why they stoop to impersonation and rude, disrespectful innuendos is because they live off society on a wing and a prayer... they don't care about the future economically and are oblivious to the fact that they are biting the very hands that feed them.

They still cannot contribute to any logical argument and believe this ridiculous bi-play wins them points, it doesn't, as most sane people would realize how stupid they really are, especially because they couldn't even make their impersonations more believable! thatIi would have respected as at least clever.

They engage in complete moronic and immature behavior, similar to this government and now we really know what labor/greens represent.

I do thank them for this, as I had my doubts about this minority and wanted to know more, possibly gain more insight to see if there was someone that they actually knew more, had more information than what I had gained, more than the diatribe we're fed by this ridiculous government... possibly, someone who would change my mind... now I know, they're immature idiots and this gives me more power to fight them on a level I know I can... and will.

Nick 27/07/11 10:22 PM Report Abuse

Frances I to agree with Wendy and think you are a wonderfull person and it's great that some one your age can use the internet and to be able to give us your opinion on things is so fantastic. I have the highest respect for someone your age and value your opinion because nothing can beat life experiences. They impersonated me to but it didn't bother me i must say because what they wrote was dumb i knew it wasn't you or Wendy, by getting upset we give them a sense of achievement, we should be laughing about to tell you the truth i had abit of a gigle when i read them.

Samantha 28/07/11 10:14 AM Report Abuse

Wendy, your assumptions that I am a dole bludger are moronic and completely off the mark.

I do not need to justify myself to you in order to validate my opinion. This is not a who has the most gold stars competition.

My point has been, time and time again. That Australia needs to turn to technology and innovation soon rather than mindlessly burning through our resources. Can you tell me that is not the case and that resources coming out of the ground will never run out? There have been far bigger changes pushed through parliament before. Perhaps this is what is required to make that shift.

In terms of climate change all science is theory, however are you really willing to take the risk with our future generations?

If Tony Abbott had a better plan than Julia, or a plan at all perhaps I would have some more respect for him.

Nick, thankyou for your apology. Please do not mock me for asking you (I know very little about what you do or the actual businesses you deal with so it could be completely impracticle). But have these businesses considered solar panels? They are a big investment at the beginning, however they generate money when they feed energy back into the grid and essentially you never have to worry about the cost of electricity again.

Under this plan the business asset write off is going to be increased so this may help these businesses as well.

Nick 28/07/11 11:02 AM Report Abuse

I know what you mean Samantha and what you are saying about solar panels but unfortunately these businesses are leasing from someone else it's not there building or property so they can't and wouldn't invest money on someone else’s building and trying to get the landlords to agree would be a nightmare.

I can tell you this from my experience that an average Sandwich shop that trades 5 Days has had it's Electricity Bill go from $1,800 Per 1/4 to $3,200 Per 1/4 in just under 4 Years, these people are really struggling. There overall weekly Takings have dropped Significantly because people are not spending money and I can honestly say to you this all started in 2007, the last time I saw something like this was when Keating gave us the recession we had to have, it's like history is being repeated. I'm telling you this as a fact, if this TAX passes many small businesses will close down because they are angry and have had enough and won’t be able to cover the extra cost, the sad thing is that it’s small business that keeps unemployment down.

Because Gillard and her Government have lied about everything and are pushing for this TAX as if it is the end of the world makes me suspicious of them it makes me think they have a hidden agenda. The past Government worked really well for me and I can only fault them on one thing, so like they say Better the Devil you know.

The libs do have a policy to tackle Climate Change and it's without hurting people or business you can download it and read it. You shouldn’t look at it as Julia or Tony but instead look at the party if you don’t like Tony that is not a reason to not vote for them just because I hate Julia isn’t the reason I wont vote for the labor Government the reason why I wouldn’t vote for them is because the Labor Government is incompetent and I mean the whole party.

You know this woman once told me that she didn’t vote for the lib’s because she thought Tony looked ridiculous in Speedos, I felt like banging my head on the wall. Our Prime Ministers have no power on their own it’s not like the movies if they did they wouldn’t have been able to back stab Kevin Rudd, I actually felt sorry for him, believe it or not.

Jebus 28/07/11 11:16 AM Report Abuse

MessageWendy, Frances and Nick,
I have no doubt that you are all indeed living breathing human beings with a wealth of knowledge based upon your own individual histories. But you are really only taking guesses at your verbal opponents here, on the dole ?? Really ?? Your words even assume chronological superiority, was it my jibes about france's age that made you assume I was young and on the dole.

You DON'T know me, or what I represent. You have been unpinned by a faceless, nameless collection of words on a feedback thread. You actually have no information on me at all.

But I am not worried, the reason I made it obvious when I was impersonating you was because I wanted to. It was a quick fly in the ointment to rattle your cages. I had no intention of actually representing you.

You come out guns blazing, without even knowing where you are firing. And you are approaching the change in our system the same way. You see it as some "Greenie, Labour, Youth, Ignorant" decision..

But I am none of these things. I am an Australian, who has been paying tax for the last 20 years, I have seen more people in pain and agony than you probably even know. I have devoted my life to others and plan to do so throughout my formative years.

However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Nick 28/07/11 11:51 AM Report Abuse

Jebus, i did relise that it was you that was impersonating us so that is why i didn't apologise to you for jumping to conclusions, but since you sound like you are a decent person, i would like to say i'm sorry. But i will never agree to this TAX.

Jebus 28/07/11 12:00 PM Report Abuse

Its not a tax ... its a price on carbon.

Bill Northwood 28/07/11 12:43 PM Report Abuse

Definition of a Tax: A compulsory contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers' income and business profits or added to the cost of some goods, services, and transactions.

The price on carbon is a compulsory contribution to state revenue levied by the government on at least some goods and services so it clearly meets the definition of a tax. Like the GST for instance, people can choose not to pay it by not purchasing goods or services that attract the tax. However, I don't know anyone that would be able to - short of becoming totally self-reliant.

Nick 28/07/11 12:55 PM Report Abuse

Jebus, You mean a Price on Carbon Monoxides right, Because the word Carbon on it's own Means Carbon Monoxides not Carbon Dioxides. You do realise that as the population Grows their are more and more people Exhailing so this pricing is afectively pricing the air we breath out, so it's like a TAX on breathing. So even if we start using energy that doesn't produce any Carbon Dioxides we still have to breath so will the next stage of this pricing be to price the air we Exhail? Think about it once they get used to this money coming in they will have to look at another way to continue to get this cash flow. I now it sounds Silly but this is reality this is what they are trying To PRICE.

Nick 28/07/11 12:57 PM Report Abuse

I meant to say Jebus, You mean a Price on Carbon Dioxides right,

Nick 28/07/11 01:12 PM Report Abuse

You see Jebus, because Julia and her Government are playing with words, Most people who have forgotten their basic science skills believe that they are trying to Price Pollution that's in the air, when in fact it's the air we breath out that they are trying to PRICE.

Frances M 28/07/11 01:26 PM Report Abuse

Check out this website and see exactly what we are going to be taxed on.

http://www.andylsemple.com/userfiles/Carbon Dioxide and the Politics of the Carbon Tax - July 2011.pdf

Jebus 28/07/11 01:31 PM Report Abuse

This is a moot point.

The truth is, there is so much pollution that (at this stage) is happening without anyone having to pay for the damage they are causing to the planet. If you disagree with this statement you are blind.

Politics aside.

This plan is going in place to make polluters accountable.

Nick 28/07/11 01:59 PM Report Abuse

Jebus, i agree with you there is to much pollution and we do need to do something about it but you refuse to acknowledge that this is not what they want to PRICE. If they wanted To Price Carbon Monoxides "Polution" i would agree because at some stage when we do turn to a clean Energy with no pollution "Carbon Monixides" this TAX or a Price on Carbon will be eventually lifted and we will no longer need to pay anymore. The problem with puting A Price on CArbon Dioxides is that most clean energy free From Pollution "Carbon Monoxides" still produce Carbon Dioxides What they are trying to price, so this TAX will never be lifted our Great, great,great great,great Children may still be paying for this.

Jebus you have to understand most of us are on the same side and all of us want to clean the air from Pollution for our health, we just don't agree with with what they are trying to Price, if they where trying to price Carbon Monoxides I don't think we would be having this debate because their would be an end to it someday but carbon dioxides will never have an end.
Check the link out that Frances just put it's good see what the other side thinks i've read reports from both sides.

Bill Northwood 28/07/11 02:02 PM Report Abuse

The plan is going to make everyone especially low income earners and pensioners accountable as the polluters will just pass the cost on to us. I'd actually be in favour of it if they had to pay as they've been profiting off our environment for years.

But look at the electricity companies, they already have to meet renewable energy targets and are they wearing any of these costs? Are they telling their shareholders - sorry profits are down because we are wearing the cost of renewable energy targets? Of course not, they are raising bills like there's no tomorrow and the Government has no control over these nor can they even predict the cost that power will be in the future. Many low income earners and pensioners already have to decide between heating, food or medical treatment, we have no luxuries to cut back on to "tighten our belts" as many like to point out.

If the Government can't control and subsides this spiraling cost to low income earners and pensioners, how can anyone possibly believe that they'll be able to do this successfully when this system is magnified exponentially with the carbon tax?

Nick 28/07/11 02:07 PM Report Abuse

Take Natural Gas for instance it's very low on carbon Monoxides "Pollution" But it still produces almost the same amounts of Carbon Dioxides as Oil base Fuels.

Nick 28/07/11 02:11 PM Report Abuse

You right Bill and this is why electicity has been going up dramaticaly in the past 4 year so i cand understand why people think that it is the big polluters that wil pay when we as the individual have already started paying for it and they havn't even passed the TAX yet.

Frances M 28/07/11 02:40 PM Report Abuse

I tried to post about an hour ago and kept getting the message that I had to remove certain language which I had not used at all. This happened just before the fake names and phony messages appeared.

Please check the email addresses used.

Bill Northwood 28/07/11 02:58 PM Report Abuse

I had that a couple of times about a week ago Frances - yet I had no abusive language in my message. Just an anomaly with the automatic filter I guess.

Nick 28/07/11 03:01 PM Report Abuse

I just checked on Hydrogen fuel, it’s a great source of fuel the cleanest fuel there is absolutely no Carbon Monoxides or Carbon Dioxides the hydrogen gets transformed back into H2O Water. Problem is you need just as much electricity “Energy” to turn the H2O into Hydrogen Hence we still produce Carbon Dioxides so this is no good because we will still be paying a TAX. I checked on Methane Gas another Clean Energy source but still produce Carbon Dioxides and water vapours which is a greenhouse Gas and apparently is no good for the Ozone Layer. So even though we have hope in Cleaning the air we breath form Pollution "Carbon Monoxides" somehow we still will be producing Carbon Dioxides so we will never ever stop paying a TAX, So we can achieve Almost pure Oxygen in our air but we can't stop the Carbon Dioxides So we will be TAXED, TAXED AND TAXED FOR EVER.

Frances M 28/07/11 03:12 PM Report Abuse

Considering that we all produce Carbon dioxide every time we breathe out, maybe the Government will just attach a hose to our faces, and siphon off our Carbon Dioxide? Of course the trees and plant life will all die without Carbon Dioxide, and we will all suffocate. But as long as the Greenies & Julia are happy that is all that really matters. :)

http://blogs.forbes.com/jamestaylor/2011/07/27/new-nasa-data-blow-gaping-hold-in-global-warming-alarmism/

2 extracts
"NASA satellite data from the years 2000 through 2011 show the Earth’s atmosphere is allowing far more heat to be released into space than alarmist computer models have predicted, reports a new study in the peer-reviewed science journal Remote Sensing. The study indicates far less future global warming will occur than United Nations computer models have predicted, and supports prior studies indicating increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide trap far less heat than alarmists have claimed."

"In short, the central premise of alarmist global warming theory is that carbon dioxide emissions should be directly and indirectly trapping a certain amount of heat in the earth’s atmosphere and preventing it from escaping into space. Real-world measurements, however, show far less heat is being trapped in the earth’s atmosphere than the alarmist computer models predict, and far more heat is escaping into space than the alarmist computer models predict.

When objective NASA satellite data, reported in a peer-reviewed scientific journal, show a “huge discrepancy” between alarmist climate models and real-world facts, climate scientists, the media and our elected officials would be wise to take notice. Whether or not they do so will tell us a great deal about how honest the purveyors of global warming alarmism truly are.

James M. Taylor is senior fellow for environment policy at The Heartland Institute and managing editor of Environment & Climate "

Nick 28/07/11 04:02 PM Report Abuse

Frances, It's amazing how alarmists alway refer to NASA i wander if they will refer to these statistics from NASA.

That was very funny what you wrote at the begining but i don't know if i should cry or laugh because this is reality.

Nick 29/07/11 12:28 PM Report Abuse

Apparently, it's now official we will now have a Carbon Police under the Government Gillard leads, they will be able to come into Business or company's premises and seize document with out a search warrant and terrorise business if they think that they are not complying all in the name of trying to police an invisible odourless harmless GAS. Thank you Julia for moving forward, “towards the destruction of Australia.”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/climate/julia-gillard-says-carbon-trading-will-be-rort-proof/story-e6frg6xf-1226059107920

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/capital-circle/carbon-cops-given-riding-orders/story-fn59nqgy-1226104021475

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/carbon-cop-handed-tough-new-powers/story-fn59niix-1226103778785

Frances 29/07/11 03:19 PM Report Abuse

Julia Gillard's govt. is planning on jailing Carbon Tax cheats for up to 10 years, just on the news.

Julia and her govt. have to go.

Nick 29/07/11 03:30 PM Report Abuse

Yes Frances and we will now have a carbon police to inforce it. The Police state is finaly being formed in Australia. One day we will be talking about the lucky Country we used to live in and how the Country was destroyed in only 4 to 6 years. DARK DAYS ARE COMING.

Frances M 29/07/11 03:52 PM Report Abuse

Nick I truly still hope that we can rid Australia of these Traitors to our way of life.

We cannot afford to give up the fight. Julia Gillard and the Greens and those Independents need to go. Someone needs to reason with the Independents, or pray that someone loses their seat, caught outdoing in something illegal. Only 2 of their politicians need to go to crash it all around Julia's ears.

Wendy 29/07/11 05:24 PM Report Abuse

There's more...

She's pushing for this bill to be passed in parliament within 4 weeks and it's tied to 14 draft bills all linked to the CT. http://www.news.com.au/money/money-matters/check-list-in-snail-mail/story-e6frfmd9-1226103987247


"The mail-out will cost $4 million. The Government has already allocated $12 million for an ad campaign and $13 million for further promotional material. Opposition environment spokesman Greg Hunt said the brochures were "destined to be junk mail" and were unlikely to explain related price rises.
"Unfortunately the campaign is unlikely to tell Australians that their electricity will go up by 10 per cent in the first year and every year thereafter, and that they will be spending $3.5 billion each year every year on foreign carbon credits," he said.
Much of the detail and structure of the tax will be enshrined in legislation, making it more difficult to repeal if Tony Abbott wins the next election.
The laws include an ambitious long-term target of cutting emissions to 80 per cent below 2000 levels by 2050, which was a deal the Government struck with the Greens to secure support for the plans."

This gives people only until the 22nd of August to put submissions to the government in against this tax.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/money/money-matters/check-list-in-snail-mail/story-e6frfmd9-1226103987247#ixzz1TTbVbOY4

Nick 29/07/11 05:52 PM Report Abuse

It makes you sick Wendy not only are they pushing for something that the majority don't want but they will also make it more difficult to repeal if Tony Abbott wins the next election. In all my life I don't think I have experienced such a bad and corrupt Government and to make things worse this whole TAX is based on a lie.

We do need to do what Tony said and that is a peoples revolt, this Country needs a revolution to get rid of the evil that is in Government and to show that Australians are not going to take it anymore as we have in the past and that it won't be alright mate anymore.

I definitely will be going to the protest on the 16th of August in Canberra and I hope we get a massive turn out. If that doesn't work we need to revolt but in a peaceful way of course if that is possible, maybe we all need to go on strike until the government reverses the decision and resigns from parliament.

Wendy 29/07/11 06:02 PM Report Abuse

I'll see you there on the 16th Nick.

Frances M 29/07/11 06:15 PM Report Abuse

I would go to Canberra on the 16th if I was able, but unfortunately for family reasons I cannot go. But I will definitely be there in spirit.

Maybe we need some kind of Town Hall Meetings in each State, I could definitely be able to manage one in Melbourne. If the Coalition would be prepared to organize that, I would do my very best to attend.

We have to stop Gillard and Brown NOW!

Val Jarrett 29/07/11 07:12 PM Report Abuse

The Labour Government needs to go, they do not have a mandate from the people and will end up sending the country bankrupt. The carbon tax will ruin many small businesses and will push up costs for everyone. As for the Tax summit, what a joke, how can you have a tax summit and not invite the groups who keep this country afloat financially. Every effort needs to be made to get rid of Labour and its defacto leader Bob Brown. As for the carbon tax compensation scheme all this will be is a money go round
with a lot of the funds disappearing into the never never and very little helping those in need.

Jessica S 29/07/11 07:31 PM Report Abuse

Nick: Please stop saying "carbon dioxides" and "carbon monoxides". They are not countable nouns and are not pluralised with an s. Also, the carbon price is not a tax as it is not "on workers' income and business profits or added to the cost of some goods, services, and transactions." It is not taxing income or profits and it is not adding to the tax of goods, services or transactions. It's more like a fine than a tax. They're also not just using it to generate extra revenue; every cent that is generated from this is being put into assistance packages or into green energy programs. The greenhouse gases we are concerned about are not "no good for the Ozone Layer". The gas that was destroying the ozone layer was chlorofluorocarbon, and after the restriction of its use the hole in the ozone layer regenerated as O1 and O2 can fuse together forming an O3 (ozone) and the hole way filled (yay!) Also, it is not official yet, it hasn't been voted upon and you are clearly overreacting.

Frances: You keep using the slippery slope fallacy as an argument against this system. Please note that this a widely recognised sign of a poor argument. Yes, one of the gases included is carbon dioxide (the others are methane, nitrous oxide and perfluorocarbons) and yes we breathe out carbon dioxide and plants use carbon dioxide for their growth. Yes, carbon dioxide is good. Water is good too, but if you drink too much water you die. Same goes for everything else that is good; too much is very very bad. Our greenhouse gas levels have been greatly rising since the industrial age and which we definitely do need carbon dioxide, we have way too much and it is slowly starting to have devastating effects. Yes, they are planning to price carbon emissions into the atmosphere, but this is only on roughly the top 500 polluters. This is FAR from counting how much carbon dioxide you breathe out and charging you for it. That is ludicrous and even implying that the plan is anything close to that is at the very least borderline moronic. Also, you seem to have a poor grasp of computers if you think that your post being rejected has anything to do with the imposters, who, by the way, were clearly just trolling.

There were more things I wanted to reply to specifically, however I have to leave soon, but I'm sure when I check back here probably on Monday I will greatly enjoy seeing how you have twisted our my words. Have a nice weekend, everyone, and please try to stay open minded. I am not a supporter of any particular government. I focus on policy. Tony Abbott has a plan too, yes, but the difference is that Julia's plan gets her money for green technology from polluters and Tony gets his money from the poor.

Frances M 29/07/11 08:00 PM Report Abuse

Jessica: You really do not understand the meaning of logic. For instance you said "Also, you seem to have a poor grasp of computers if you think that your post being rejected has anything to do with the imposters, who, by the way, were clearly just trolling."

An imposter is someone who tries to pass themselves off as somebody else, so the Troll was doing just that. I believe it was probably just one person, a Troll using multiple ID's pretending to be myself and others.

But that is really not the subject here is it?

Since you apparently believe that Global Warming is real why exactly are you on this Liberal message board at all? I don't go over to the Greens or Labor's message boards and flame them. So why are you and your 'little friends' here? Or is it possible that are you so worried that maybe the plans of mice and men (Greens and Labor) will fail that you come here hoping to dissuade us from protesting?

I suggest that you check out the 'real' science, not the garbage that Al Gore and the Greens publish.

By the way have you noticed just how cold it has been recently? Or that the Oceans are really not rising? Take a trip to the bay or the coast and check it out for yourself.
All the houses along the bay are still there not under 4 feet of water. Look up the word fallacy.
fal·la·cy/ˈfaləsē/Noun
1. A mistaken belief, esp. one based on unsound argument.
2. A failure in reasoning that renders an argument invalid.

Wendy 30/07/11 09:29 AM Report Abuse

From Bolt...

"Meanwhile, Charles Monnett , the US federal biologist whose headline-grabbing claim that global warming was drowning polar bears was recycled in Al Gore’s An Inconvenient Truth, has now been suspended while authorities investigate allegations of scientific misconduct, reportedly in the study that made him famous."

And

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_ill_believe_its_serious_whern_flannery_sits_on_his_roof_cuddling_cat

Tim Flannery - Chief Climate Commissioner - call this a TAX

Nick 30/07/11 09:37 AM Report Abuse

Ok thanks Jessica thanks for the English lesson I will try and use the words correctly since it bothers you so much, but you obviously knew what I meant aye, sorry I didn’t realise that it was an English test.

So you don’t think it’s an extra TAX on us the consumer, you don’t believe that the extra cost will be passed onto the us the consumer like always, it’s always passed on to us the consumer so what’s different this time?

I was going to say allot more to you but once again it's telling me to remove profanities so it's to frustrating to waste anymore time on you.

Nick 30/07/11 09:43 AM Report Abuse

I gree with you Frances i don't even know what the Labor or Greens Web site looks like so why do they come on the libs site?

Frances M 30/07/11 10:08 AM Report Abuse

Wendy thanks for that excellent article at the link. Tim Flannery 'exposes' himself with his lies. LOL Look at his eyes and you can see when he is lying. Has anyone here ever watched the TV series "Lie to Me" it exposes the facial expressions when someone is lying.

Nick the Greens and Labor folk come here because they are 'afraid' of the truth coming out. Somewhere deep down inside I think they know we are right, but they are so caught up in the 'Cult of Green' that they are afraid to admit that they are wrong.

Nick 30/07/11 07:32 PM Report Abuse

Frances you have to watch this video it expains it all to you,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6b70TUbdfs

I think this is where Gillard go her training from.

Ben 31/07/11 11:25 AM Report Abuse

Frances M. No way you are 70 if you are using "LOL"

Frances M 31/07/11 12:13 PM Report Abuse

Ben I have been using computers since the 80's I was using them before the Internet, on BBS's (Bulletin Boards) which preceded the Internet. You might be surprised to know that I know a lot of other savvy internet users some who are in their 80's. Just because people are in their 70's and 80's doesn't mean that we are over the hill and do not know about using LOL, LMAO and smilies etc. :) Back in the day we used to attach lines to our messages too. i.e., like this one. To exit press 'Ctrl Alt Del'. Try it. :)

Frances M 31/07/11 12:19 PM Report Abuse

Nick I believe you are right. But I think that we need to take notice of it too. After all we are many more than she is and more than Labor is. Julia Gillard thinks she is in power but in reality she isn't if only we use our 'power of the people'.

Frances M 31/07/11 12:36 PM Report Abuse

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/solarsystem/10mar_stormwarning.html

2 excerpts

" Researchers say a storm is coming--the most intense solar maximum in fifty years.

It's official: Solar minimum has arrived. Sunspots have all but vanished. Solar flares are nonexistent. The sun is utterly quiet.

Like the quiet before a storm.

Recently researchers announced that a storm is coming--the most intense solar maximum in fifty years. The prediction comes from a team led by Mausumi Dikpati of the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR). "The next sunspot cycle will be 30% to 50% stronger than the previous one," she says. If correct, the years ahead could produce a burst of solar activity second only to the historic Solar Max of 1958.
Intense aurora"

"All this happens with massive slowness. "It takes about 40 years for the belt to complete one loop," says Hathaway. The speed varies "anywhere from a 50-year pace (slow) to a 30-year pace (fast)."

When the belt is turning "fast," it means that lots of magnetic fields are being swept up, and that a future sunspot cycle is going to be intense. This is a basis for forecasting: "The belt was turning fast in 1986-1996," says Hathaway. "Old magnetic fields swept up then should re-appear as big sunspots in 2010-2011."

Like most experts in the field, Hathaway has confidence in the conveyor belt model and agrees with Dikpati that the next solar maximum should be a doozy. But he disagrees with one point. Dikpati's forecast puts Solar Max at 2012. Hathaway believes it will arrive sooner, in 2010 or 2011.

"History shows that big sunspot cycles 'ramp up' faster than small ones," he says. "I expect to see the first sunspots of the next cycle appear in late 2006 or 2007--and Solar Max to be underway by 2010 or 2011."

Who's right? Time will tell. Either way, a storm is coming. "

So is our carbon dioxide affecting the sun too? Or is the sun which affects the earth?

Nick 31/07/11 01:43 PM Report Abuse

Frances, I'm prety sure it's the sun that effects the eath the same way it is affecting other planets in our solar system there is plenty of information about that and at the moment the sun has no sunspots which has an affect on our planet.

Check this information out it's very interesting information about Gillard but no mention of this in the media.

http://www.omegatimes.com/article.php?intid=1321

http://www.larryhannigan.com/gillardtreason02.htm

Nick 31/07/11 01:54 PM Report Abuse

The second link is very interesting a little over the top but don't forget the UN gets 10% of the money raised from cabon Taxes world wide so who are we really giving our money to and what kind of powers will they have in the future?

Frances M 31/07/11 02:37 PM Report Abuse

Interesting website Nick, but I think that the whole nation needs to rise up in order to overthrow Julia Gillard.

Nick 31/07/11 03:59 PM Report Abuse

Frances, we first need to hold peaceful protests such as the one on the 16th of August at parliament house, we need to keep writing letters to the Government demanding they reverse the decision or hold an early election with a mandate on Carbon tax and let the Australian people vote the way it was meant to been done, but it wasn't.

We live in a democracy and this Government has violated our democratic rights and also has violated our free speech and that's NOT ON. We need to start educating the people around us who have forgotten the role of the Government by reminding them that we the people of Australia are their Employers and they are our Employees.

The Governments role is to manage the Country and act on our behalf and our wishes in a democratic way and not to dictate what they think is good for us. If we think of it this way it makes allot of sense, if you had a Company or a Business and you employed a manager to manage your business would you allow that manager to act on your behalf and not consult with you the Employer first on very important issues that could bankrupt your Business?

For some reason people have forgotten the role of Governments how many times has someone complained by the way we address Gillard and demand we be more respectful but they have over come the fact that she has disrespected the whole Nation and that she is just our Employee. They think of the Prime Minister as the leader when in fact he or she is the Manager. There are no such thing as a leader our days in the past yes, when a leader went to war with his soldiers and fought in the front line, that was a leader nowadays it’s our children that go to war while they sit on a desk and play with their toy soldiers and tanks.

If all fails and they pass this Criminal TAX then the next step is a peoples revolt, this will be our only option, a revolution to show Gillard we mean business and that the Australian people are not as dumb as they thought we were. We as Australians are in Fact one of the smartest people in the world and if you do some research you will be amazed how much technology and inventions have come out of this country, the lawn mower and refrigeration to name two.

If we don’t stand up for our rights then what can I say other than all the diggers that fought in many wars to preserve the way of life that we had up until now, was all for nothing and they died for nothing.

Rod 01/08/11 10:58 AM Report Abuse

British prime minister congratulated julia gillard for a carbon price in helping emissions.and yet England cost of living is much higher than of Australia.many countries who have the carbon tax are finacial are in crisis the economy is far worse than Australia. they are vertally in debt. Australia does not want to go down that path , it will be a shame if it did , the economy is it strongest than ever, by introducing a carbon tax will dowmslide the Austarlain economy and in debt, jobs lossess and business going to the wall. what abbot should do,is sack the australian prime minister julis Gillard. that is why Gough whitlam was sacked. you cant lead the country in debt and in economic crisis

Nick 01/08/11 11:35 AM Report Abuse

Yes I heard this, this morning and Gillard replied as this was more proof on top of the mountain of proof and approval that she reckons she has.

We the people of Australia must use the power of numbers against her and demand that she is sacked immediately in fact we need to sack the whole Labor government and allow the libs to Govern, if we still have some chance to fix all the stuff ups before it's to late.

The Libs have always fixed Labors Stuff Ups and paid their bad debts I’m sure they will be able to do it again and let this be a lesson to us the next time we decide we need a change for no reason.

Frances 01/08/11 02:27 PM Report Abuse

Unless Tony Abbott can force an election, Julia Gillard is going to drive this once great nation into penury. We have seen the US President Barack Obama forced by the Congress into making concessions re their Economy in order to save his Presidency. We will be following the US with the destruction of our economy. The Labor Goernment spent the Surplus like it was going out of style. Now they are driving the nation into bankruptcy, to pay off those who sold their souls for a few million dollars to role out the NBN., which may not even be connected if the nation goes down the tubes, who will be able to pay for the NBN if they have no jobs?

Nick 01/08/11 02:57 PM Report Abuse

Frances, I was very suspicous of the way they pushed for the NBN they could have used that money to fund renewable enregy or better still a cure for cancer because it has become a pandemic if you consider how many people are dying from cancer.

I then realised what it is all about, they are trying to hold a Monopoly over all ISP's. If they can create a Monopoly over all ISP's and if they control the central Hub that controls information coming in then they will be able to Filter the internet without us having any choice over that control. I don't think they are doing us a favour so there must be something else behind it.

Nick 01/08/11 04:07 PM Report Abuse

A good video that explains the Carbon Tax.

http://vidcall.com/index.php/videos/show/2090/#chooseVidcallMailWin-coming-s

Frances M 01/08/11 04:07 PM Report Abuse

I agree with you Nick. My son works for a very large ISP in Australia, and I am pretty sure that the Govt. will ensure that the Federal Labor Govt. will control the information highway through Telstra.

Jessica S 01/08/11 05:05 PM Report Abuse

Hello again, my Liberal friends. In answer to your question, I come here because it is one of the few places I can access from my current location and I am using this as entertainment.

I am not afraid of people finding out I am wrong. I am very afraid that I am right and I would be extremely happy if I were wrong.

Frances, why did you tell me the definition of fallacy? I have asked a couple of people an they cannot figure out how that made sense in context. I told you that you were using the slippery slope fallacy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope_fallacy#The_slippery_slope_as_fallacy and for some reason you assumed based on me referring to a specific fallacy I was not aware of the word?

I think you need to think of a Prime Minister not as a manager, but as a parent taking care of their many children. Sometimes you just have to do what's right for your kids because most of them are just not smart enough to understand it is what they are doing may well kill them.

The NBN is fairly important and can help with both of the things you mentioned. With high speed internet being everywhere, it would mean that many people can telecommute, greatly reducing traffic. Doctors would able to do video appointments over the internet to give them more time and reduce costs. With the right equipment, which does exist, doctors could even perform surgery remotely, meaning that the world's greatest cancer surgeons would be more accessible to the common people. With internet with enough reliability and high enough speed, you can make anything happen remotely and the world's greatest minds can act together, be more productive and launch us into a better future.

Also, there is no intent for there to be an internet filter with the NBN. It is not in any way associated. Read the proposal. Note that the notion of the internet filter died a long time ago. Please try to stick to facts and not random heresay or crackpot theories.

And again, I must go, my ride is waiting for me. Have a nice night.

Frances M 01/08/11 06:24 PM Report Abuse

Joanne Nova on The 2011 Lord Monckton Tour

Introduction by The Hon. Dr Peter PHELPS, MLC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RgM7oYieWE&NR=1

Wendy 01/08/11 06:39 PM Report Abuse

Personally, I don't need another parent, in fact I'm likely more educated and qualified than my parents.

I don't need nor want another parent. And as a tax payer and voter and I believe an intelligent person, I want the facts.

Nick 01/08/11 10:18 PM Report Abuse

Jessica, are you serious not managers but Parents? Parents don’t lead their children to the slaughter like Gillard your Mum is. You wouldn’t happen to be a primary school teacher because you sure sound like one. I hope you’re not confusing us with your students, I tell you what Ms Gillard can be your mum if that makes you happy but I’ll look at her like a terrible manager. You sure do come in here for Entertainment.

“people can telecommute, greatly reducing traffic” Ahhmm we can already do that.

“Doctors would be able to do video appointments over the internet to give them more time and reduce costs.” Reduce Costs? Their personal indemnity insurance will go through the roof it won’t be worth it for them, don’t you do any research do you only quote from TV, Media and what your Mum Gillard only tells you.

“the world's greatest minds can act together”( We are already doing that aren’t we except for some of us on this Blog.)

“there is no intent for there to be an internet filter with the NBN” Duh Uh Hello anyone in there???????? Duh!! Just like there was no intent to have a carbon TAX under the government I lead, we have already fallen for that once before.

“It is not in any way associated.” (Just like the carbon TAX was in no way associated.)

“Note that the notion of the internet filter died a long time ago.” (Just Like the Carbon TAX did before the last election.)

Please try to stick to facts (I suppose you mean like your facts) and not random heresay (Sound like someone) or crackpot theories, (You mean like the AGW/Climate Change Theory.)

Jessica please do keep entertaining us with your comments they are a great Laugh.

Larry 02/08/11 01:15 PM Report Abuse

Why does everyone keep saying "tax" in all caps? :/ Did you all have some sort of secret meeting and decide that it wouldn't be really annoying to do that?

Frances M 02/08/11 01:22 PM Report Abuse

YES we always hold SECRET MEETINGS to discuss IMPORTANT issues like whether or not to use CAPITAL LETTERS! LOL

Nick 02/08/11 02:02 PM Report Abuse

We have been exposed.

On a serious note it's because the Government over dramatises The whole Climate/AGW as if it's the end of the world so i suppose we do the same thing with the word TAX as if it's the end of the world, sometimes you need to fight fire with fire.

Frances M 02/08/11 02:19 PM Report Abuse

I suspect that we use capital letters for TAX because we don't have any other way of highlighting our complaint. If I could if they were available I would used 'flaming red letters' for the word TAX. It is like crying FIRE in a burning building. Because Julia Gillard is about to destroy Australia's economy, just as her Socialist cronies in the US Govt. have destroyed the US economy.

Nick 02/08/11 02:27 PM Report Abuse

Larry, Does it not Upset you when Julia says the words a TAX on Pollution or a price on Pollution to try and make you think that they are trying to TAX the smog in the air when in fact they want to TAX you on an invisible odourless weightless gas .

Frances M 02/08/11 02:47 PM Report Abuse

Nick you left out a most important issue in your explanation, Carbon Dioxide is a necessary part of the Continuation of Life on this planet. If there were no carbon dioxide, there would be no trees or plants, and we would all die of starvation. What they should be doing something about, is Carbon Monoxide which is poisonous. Not tax plant food. I.e., make cleaner fuel.

But the Socialist Agenda is to take from the Rich (Employers etc.) and give to the less financially advantaged, but without the Employers the poor would starve to death because they would have no jobs.

"However both economics and politics after World War I with its resultant general strike, the 1930s Depression and later Nationalisation and the miners' strike of 1984-1985 took their toll and all the smaller pits were either abandoned or swallowed into Big Pit's encroaching search for new seams. Finally in February 1980 the coal ran out and even Big Pit, then the oldest mine in Wales, had to close."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_in_Wales

I guess it was the closing of the mines in Wales which is what brought Julia Gillard's miner father to migrate to Australia, where his daughter is proceeding to complete the damage to mining that her father was involved in, in Wales.

Nick 02/08/11 03:21 PM Report Abuse

I tried to explain about Carbon Dioxide but sometimes it won't go through it tells you to check for Profanities even though there is none, so sometimes by the time you keep changing it so it can go through it no longer makes sence. it's weird some times you can post a huge post and it goes through first go and sometimes you try to post three lines and it won't except it. i didn't know that Gillard's farther was a miner, Go figure she wants to destroy the very thing that fed her.

Frances M 02/08/11 04:29 PM Report Abuse

Check out this link about Julia Gillard's father in Wales. I read somewhere else that he was a miner, he was definitely a Socialist and so is Julia.

"It does not require Sigmund Freud, therefore, to see that the experience of the father, the levelling wit and the visceral passions of South Wales Labour, play out in the daughter’s determination to succeed. They are evident from her political coming of age in the hyperactive world of Australian student politics, through her involvement with Socialist Forum in the mid-Eighties, her work as an industrial relations lawyer with Slater & Gordon and her subsequent involvement both personally and politically with the Australian Workers’ Union. Widely regarded as well-organised, a skilled networker and a powerful communicator, it is noteworthy that the portfolios she has most identified with, both in opposition and government, are health, education, and industrial relations, reflecting the interests of her socialist father and her socialist hero. "

http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/6112943/old-south-wales-socialism-made-gillard-who-she-is.thtml

Nick 03/08/11 10:19 AM Report Abuse

Frances, thank you very much for that link, i had no idea. I'd advice everyone to read it.
It does open your eyes to who Julia realy is, Everything makes allot more sense now.

Frances M 05/08/11 02:22 AM Report Abuse

Check out this link it is quite mind blowing.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5576670191369613647

Nick 05/08/11 07:56 AM Report Abuse

Frances, check out these two links, the first one features Lord Munckton.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElEwhE7B-8o

http://www.quicksilverscreen.im/watch?video=237938

Nick 05/08/11 08:02 AM Report Abuse

Frances, this link to it's of this subject but they are all conected to one big plan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rw397VbRyM

Jessica S 05/08/11 09:54 AM Report Abuse

You all keep going on about how they should be TAXing carbon monoxide instead because carbon dioxide is necessary for life. Carbon monoxide is not that bad; yes, it's a toxin and you would die if you are in an enclosed space with it, but the same goes from carbon dioxide; you would just need more of it. Have you ever heard of carbon dioxide poisoning? Plus, carbon monoxide is used in natural processes too, again, it's on a smaller scale, but if the fact that carbon dioxide is used for life is your argument for why it is ok to have a ridiculous amount on it, then the same argument can be used for carbon monoxide.

Now, most the most important point about carbon monoxide is that once it is in the atmosphere, it will turn into carbon dioxide! So, if you are against excess carbon monoxide in the atmosphere, you are against excess carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Soooo... stop using that are your argument. If you can come up with one argument that is not massively flawed, I will start to change my mind. Until then, I will continue to stick with the side which I believe has the most sound arguments.

Nick 05/08/11 10:25 AM Report Abuse

Ok Jessica think of it this way, We can stop Carbon Monoxide eventually with new technology we will be able to eliminate Carbon monoxide completely but we can't stop carbon dioxide because we all have to keep breathing and because all renewable energy will still produce carbon dioxide, one way or another we will keep getting TAXED even when the air is completely clean even when the smog is gone. The best form of energy is Hydrogen, the Hydrogen Cell is only years away they say by 2015 to 2020 all car manufacturers will be selling this technology together with electric cars which will be fine to use in our cities.

You see hydrogen is the cleanest and purest energy and only produces water Vapours out of your Exhaust but you still need electricity to produce the Hydrogen we will be able to stop the carbon monoxide with technology but we can't stop carbon dioxide that will still be there. The reason they chose to go with carbon dioxides is because it will always be there so they can continue to TAX us. Are you not just a little concerned that they are giving a start date to when they will start Taxing us but they are not giving you any projections to an end date, so how long will this take, Will our children be paying, our Grand Children or even our great Grand children? We have no answers we can't just agree to anything without this information or without any projections towards the future. Watch the links that Francis an I have put up so you can understand what this TAX is really all about, just give it a chance see what they deniers have to say as well. I have looked at both sides to make my decision, When I first saw the inconvenient truth I thought Al Gore was the greatest man on Earth but when I found out the truth

Nick 05/08/11 10:31 AM Report Abuse

Ok Jessica think of it this way, We can stop Carbon Monoxide eventually with new technology we will be able to eliminate Carbon monoxide completely but we can't stop carbon dioxide because we all have to keep breathing and because all renewable energy will still produce carbon dioxide, one way or another we will keep getting TAXED even when the air is completely clean even when the smog is gone. The best form of energy is Hydrogen, the Hydrogen Cell is only years away they say by 2015 to 2020 all car manufacturers will be selling this technology together with electric cars which will be fine to use in our cities.

You see hydrogen is the cleanest and purest energy and only produces water Vapours out of your Exhaust but you still need electricity to produce the Hydrogen we will be able to stop the carbon monoxide with technology but we can't stop carbon dioxide that will still be there. The reason they chose to go with carbon dioxides is because it will always be there so they can continue to TAX us. Are you not just a little concerned that they are giving a start date to when they will start Taxing us but they are not giving you any projections to an end date, so how long will this take, Will our children be paying, our Grand Children or even our great Grand children? We have no answers we can't just agree to anything without this information or without any projections towards the future. Watch the links that Francis an I have put up so you can understand what this TAX is really all about, just give it a chance see what they deniers have to say as well. I have looked at both sides to make my decision, When I first saw the inconvenient truth I thought Al Gore was the greatest man on Earth but when I found out the truth I now look at him as the most evil man on Earth.

Frances M 05/08/11 11:41 AM Report Abuse

http://www.menzieshouse.com.au/2011/08/new-poll-should-the-department-of-climate-change-be-abolished.html#tpe-action-posted-6a012876778d82970c014e8a637e7a970d

"Air contains roughly 78% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, trace amounts of other gases, and a variable amount (average around 1%) of water vapor."

Jessica, instead of just spouting what your masters at the Labor website tell you, take a look at the carbon dioxide levels in 'air'. "0.038% carbon dioxide". When I was young we had a saying, "next thing they will be taxing is the air we breathe" It was meant to be humorous remark.

Under Julia Gillard and Bob Brown, they are actually going to do it. They cannot reduce the amount of carbon dioxide in the air, and they know it, so instead they are substituting taxes. Every time humans and animals breathe out we breath out carbon dioxide, which is plant food. The trees take in our carbon dioxide and release oxygen. But the 'global warming' people are in it for profit not to clean up the air we all breathe.

http://www.menzieshouse.com.au/

Nick 05/08/11 12:46 PM Report Abuse

Wow Frances, this is amazing stuff did you see the poll they ask the quetion,
Should the Department of Climate Change be abolished? so far the polls say 82% say yes, 16% say no and 2% are unsure, but JULIAR and her criminal freinds still insist that we want it and we need it.

All the polls no matter what, show similar results but JULIAR and her criminal freinds know Better, What a great democracy we have, aye Francis. Not only should we stop this lie but Juliar and her criminal freinds should be brought in front of a court and punished accordingly to the laws of this land for LYING and wasting our money to force her Lie upon the very people she should be working for.

I am finally proud to be an Australian in this great country of ours and i am proud of all Australians for finaly standing up for our rights, and not continuing to adopt the saying of "She'll be right mate". We have been copping it sweet for many generations and finaly we have awoken.

carleita stewart 05/08/11 01:11 PM Report Abuse

good grief!! if julia is the answer, how stupid was the question.

Frances M 05/08/11 02:45 PM Report Abuse

Personally I think that Julia Gillard and Bob Brown should be charged with Treason! She overthrew the legitimate Labor PM Kevin Rudd, placed herself on the Labor Throne, and then to retain her seat when they finally had an election she made backdoor deals with The Greens and certain Independents who sold their souls for promises of the NBN rollout in their electorates. Surely those actions must be illegal? If not they should be. When that US Governor tried to sell Obama's seat in the Senate he was put on Trial.

Yes Nick I saw all that stuff you are talking about. We have been to lackadaisical in this country it is time to get up off our bottoms and protest. There is going to be a protest in Berwick Vic. outside the Office of the Labor Member, at midday the same day as the Canberra demonstration. I will be going there, I can't get to Canberra, but I can get to Berwick. Demonstrations outside the Local Labor Offices everywhere simultaneously with the Canberra Convoy's arrival in Canberra, will attract the attention of the media I am sure.

Carleita, I love your comment. LOL

Nick 05/08/11 05:46 PM Report Abuse

Frances here is another interesting article about Bob Brown, http://justmeint.wordpress.com/2011/07/19/i-want-truth-but-not-right-now-thanks/
Yes Julia and Bob Brown Are both traitors’ and should be charged, but do you think they ever will? Julia Gillard became prime Minister even though she had been summoned to court on treason charges and that is against Commonwealth Law.
The Law States,
Any person who:
(i) is under any acknowledgment of allegiance, obedience, or
adherence to a foreign power, or is a subject or a citizen or
entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or a citizen of a
foreign power; or
(ii) is attainted of treason, or has been convicted and is under
sentence, or subject to be sentenced, for any offence
punishable under the law of the Commonwealth or of a State
by imprisonment for one year or longer; or

shall be incapable of being chosen or of sitting as a senator or a
member of the House of Representatives.

This would also invoke the fact in reasoning that becoming disqualified also takes in the part of Section 46 Penalty for sitting when disqualified

Until the Parliament otherwise provides, any person declared by
this Constitution to be incapable of sitting as a senator or as a
member of the House of Representatives shall, for every day on
which he so sits, be liable to pay the sum of one hundred pounds
to any person who sues for it in any court of competent jurisdiction.

As a commonwealth this constitution overrides any other acts thereafter, this must be upheld by order of the Queen and maintained through her representative the governor general.
So I ask again how did Julia Gillard become Prime Minister??

Frances M 05/08/11 07:09 PM Report Abuse

Nick the lady who owns JustMeinT is a friend of mine. :) She is in Tassie hence the "T" we know each other through an email group on a different subject. I will have to tell her you have quoted her blog she will be tickled pink.

JustMEinT 05/08/11 08:10 PM Report Abuse

The biggest problem (after we stop the Carbon Dioxide Taxation Scheme) as I see it, is just who do we have with backbone and integrity to run this once Great Nation of ours?
Abbott = same horse different course
The Liberals say 'the science is in" I had direct contact with Gred Hunt, and when asked exactly where the Liberals stood on AGW, answered me:

We oppose the tax, accept the science but argue for the right of everyone to have their own opinions without fear of being denounced.

OK so from the horses mouth the Liberals accept the science..... that means that BOTH partties believe in manmade climate change..... we need a 'runner' for the Office of P.M. with nackbone who will question the paid CSIRO scientists, who will seek opposing views in science, who will not rush into making Australia a laughingstock and who will prevent 'outsiders' from making a killing on crabon credit trading schemes.

JustMeinT 05/08/11 08:12 PM Report Abuse

typo's sorry
a leader with backbone
a killing on carbon credit trading schemes

Frances M 05/08/11 10:43 PM Report Abuse

I just received this link in the email. I thought you would all find it very interesting, and hopefully useful.

http://tgrule.wordpress.com/

excerpt only.

"Questioning the “Science” that the AGW promoters promote.
Posted on August 5, 2011 by Ken McMurtrie
ball-and-stick model of CO2: carbon dioxide


It seems that the defence of the AGW scientists and supporters, against criticisms of AGW boils down (there must be a better term), to their belief in “science’”. They keep repeating ad nauseum “we believe in the science”, the “CSIRO cannot be wrong”, the “IPCC cannot be wrong”, “2,500 scientists cannot be wrong”, “there is a consensus”, “the icecaps are melting” and so on.

So the question must be asked, “is the science of the IPCC-based conclusions reliable, unbiassed, exact, beyond question, falsifiable (whatever that means), irrefutable and dependable”?

Then the next question would be, “who is capable and qualified to judge these matters”?

The answer must be, “not the people who are involved with the IPCC and the related organizations depending on the conclusions being acted upon”! For obvious reasons! Well then, who?"

Go to the link and read the rest for yourselves. Well those with commonsense should go to the link, the brainwashed do not need to bother, becaue they already 'know that they know the truth'! And we wouldn't want to shatter their illusions.

Here is the link again for the 'GW' sceptics. The true believers will not be interested anyway. They have their 'faith to keep them warm' or 'hot.' For those of you who are feeling distinctly 'chilled' go to the link.

http://tgrule.wordpress.com/

Nick 06/08/11 08:02 AM Report Abuse

JustMeinT I like your blog page I loved your version of Anthem.
You say "Abbott = same horse different course" I don't know if I agree with that, I know what you mean though. There are certain things that are happening around us that we have no control of and can't do anything about, but we still have the right to vote so far. I don't know about you but I feel that every time the Lib's are in everything runs allot smoother especially business the Libs seem to help big business which creates Jobs, they like to save money So because of that the down side is we get less infrastructure but at least they don’t put the Country into debt. The Labor government on the other hand likes to help the doll Bludgers the lazy and no hopers, and loves to spend and mismanage our money and infrastructure and they always leave a huge debt for the next Government, so there clearly is a difference. I say better the devil we know besides we don’t vote for a person it appears to us that we are but really we vote for the whole party. The Lib’s handled things much better last time I’m sure they can do it again, the very first improvement will be to stop the boat people by bringing the pacific solution back, we all know that this was the best and only solution but the Labor government refuses to acknowledge this because they don’t want to admit that once again they are wrong and have stuffed this as well.

Frances thanks for the link.

Frances M 06/08/11 11:38 AM Report Abuse

Hi Nick, now Labor is bringing in the Malaysian Solution, yeah just great send children to a nation which abuses its own people. I have a friend who lives in Malaysia, she is Indian and she lives in fear of the corrupt Malaysian govt. She used to work for the Malaysian govt. they forced her sign documents just before she retired promising that she would not take the family savings out of Malaysia.

It seems to me that if the Nauru Island Detention centre which is already built and just waiting for people is the right solution while they check out the credentials of the asylum seekers, and separate the wheat from the chaff. The Nauruan's need the detention centre opened to provide jobs, because they no longer have any more phosphate to sell. The Nauruan people are kind and gentle so Nauru is an ideal location for the detention centre. But instead Julia is going to send children to Malaysia where people are treated cruelly. It is not just a matter of Julia getting it wrong she just doesn't care for the lives of other human beings at all. We are now in the hands of the Greens Bob Brown who seems more interested in his own agenda, whatever that is, than in taking care of the environment.

What we need is to remove the power of the Greens, and Labor will come tumbling down with them.

Frances M 06/08/11 11:48 AM Report Abuse

Here I am again. Sorry but I just couldn't resist posting this, it is PRICELESS!

extract

Andrew Bolt
Friday, April 25, 2008 at 06:00am


RAIN sure is falling this week on the parade of our global warming alarmists.

Wettest of all is Tim Flannery, who was made Australian of the Year last year for wailing the world was doomed.

We were making the planet heat so fast with our filthy gases, Flannery insisted, that the ice caps were vanishing and we had to “picture an eight-storey building by a beach, then imagine waves lapping its roof”.

No scare seemed too absurd for this Alarmist of the Year.

“I think there is a fair chance Perth will be the 21st century’s first ghost metropolis,” he groaned. But buy his The Weather Makers before you flee.

Reporters solemnly reported even this: “He (Flannery) also predicts that the ongoing drought could leave Sydney’s dams dry in just two years.”

And when did he say that? Oh, three years ago? Yet what do I read in my papers yesterday but this: “Sydney’s run of rainy days in a row - 11 - is the most in April for 77 years.”

And Sydney’s dams?

Above 65 per cent capacity now.

How embarrassing for Flannery and others in the scary weather business. No wonder the NSW Bureau of Meteorology yesterday complained “the rain was getting people down”.

End extract

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_prophecy_all_washed_up/

Nick 06/08/11 12:40 PM Report Abuse

Ah Frances I’m so happy to see that there is other people that think the same as me, you are 100% correct Malaysia is definitely not a solution especially because they have human rights issues a Country that doesn't treat it's own Citizens in a humane way is definitely not a solution, I wonder what dirty deals they had to make to get the Malaysian government to accept or better still how much is it really costing us.
I’ve read that before from Andrew Bolt, we all should know by now that Tim Flannery is an idiot and a fake, he can’t even play the lye in a convincing way. What did Tim Flannery say again, that if the world was to stop all CO2 emissions as of today we can expect a one degree decrease in temperatures in about a thousand years I bet Julia was rolling her eyes in disbelief. If that’s true I ask what is the hurry it probably takes 1000 years to increase the temperatures by one degree I mean I don’t know I’m just guessing but it proves that we do have lots of time to analyse and debate the science from both sides and find a good solution and that’s if we do actually have a Problem and need a solution because I’m convinced it’s a lie.
My most biggest concern and the one thing that I will never agree to no matter if even the world was coming to an end and I mean no matter what I would rather die from natural disasters, is to give the UN a % of the TAX, to me that is like the end of humanity and the beginning of Slavery and a one World Government. Giving a Corrupt organisation such as the UN money will only make things allot worse and it will only give them allot more power to dictate and control the world.
If what people are saying is correct and the Government collects 11 Billion dollars in the first year alone from this TAX, 10% which is 1.1 billion dollars goes to the UN so that is 1.1 billion Dollars (One thousand one hundred Million Dollars) of our money gone for ever out of our economy, no wonder the IPCC reports were fudged after their own scientists had signed of on them, look at how much they have gain and that is only from us.

Frances M 09/08/11 01:02 PM Report Abuse

Sign up to get FREE Bumper Stickers and sticky pads to oppose the Carbon Tax.

http://network.conservative.org.au/

We’ve come up with a new, fun way that we can all highlight the impact on cost of living pressures due to Labor's carbon dioxide tax.

The CANdo Carbon Cost Campaign involves placing pre-printed sticky notes on everyday goods to remind people that they will cost more thanks to this proposed new tax.

Imagine the impact if hundreds (or thousands) of people in your local supermarket stop to consider the price impact of the carbon tax thanks to a sticky note as they do their weekly shop?

The list of potential areas to highlight how bad this tax will be for consumers is virtually limitless. Already CANdo are receiving photos of people using these sticky notes in restaurants, at the airport, at petrol pumps, at home and in the office.

It's grass roots activism at its finest.

These sticky note pads are paid for through the generosity of individual donors. You too can help us distribute more pads by clicking below, or you can request a pad so that you can start sticking in your local area!

Nick 09/08/11 02:51 PM Report Abuse

Thanks Frances for this link to a very good site i had never seen this before.

Nick 09/08/11 03:41 PM Report Abuse

Has anyone heard of this Yet, Apparently the DEVIL Al Gore is up to something on September the 14th 2011, he must feel threatened by the deniers.
The Climate Reality Project Founded and chaired by Al Gore, Nobel Laureate and former Vice President of the United States.

http://climaterealityproject.org/

"The Event"
What is 24 Hours of Reality?

24 Presenters. 24 Time Zones. 13 Languages. 1 Message. 24 Hours of Reality is a worldwide event to broadcast the reality of the climate crisis. It will consist of a new multimedia presentation created by Al Gore and delivered once per hour for 24 hours, in every time zone around the globe. Each hour people living with the reality of climate change will connect the dots between recent extreme weather events — including floods, droughts and storms — and the manmade pollution that is changing our climate. We will offer a round-the-clock, round-the-globe snapshot of the climate crisis in real time. The deniers may have millions of dollars to spend, but we have a powerful advantage. We have reality.
When is 24 Hours of Reality?

24 Hours of Reality will be broadcast live online from Sept. 14 to 15, over 24 hours, in 24 time zones and in 13 languages.

Frances M 09/08/11 06:40 PM Report Abuse

http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/articles/189649/20110730/global-warming-hoax-nasa-earth-releasing-heat-space.htm

Global Warming a Hoax? NASA Reveals Earth Releasing Heat into Space

July 30, 2011 10:08 AM EDT

Global warming predictions have followed UN models and trends in describing how Earth traps heat due to carbon dioxide. The increased gases and rising temperatures would create large amounts of water vapors to develop into clouds. Those clouds would trap larger amounts of heat and devastate the planet's ecosystem, leading to the end of mankind.

With new data collected from NASA's Terra satellite, that established ecological model may be proven inaccurate. Hypotheses based on the satellite's findings show that planet Earth actually releases heat into space, more than it retains it. The higher efficiency of releasing energy outside of Earth contradicts former forecasts of climate change

Nick 16/08/11 09:22 PM Report Abuse

If we don't stop this Carbon Tax and get Rid of Gillard and and the Greens this is what could happen next.

http://www.news.com.au/money/money-matters/power-cuts-by-remote/story-e6frfmd9-1226114484088#ixzz1V40Gs1OF

raj 18/08/11 06:34 PM Report Abuse

sorry but this site didnt help me at all for my homework!

Frances M 18/08/11 09:44 PM Report Abuse

One Labor member to take down, and the whole Labor house will topple.

Pissed off Australian 21/08/11 09:41 PM Report Abuse

Australia only has itself to blame. I personally voted liberal but fucking idiots across this nation voted labour. In the small scheme of things yes work choices were bad. However, considering the alternative of bankrupting this country you got to use your brain Australia. This is the same party that had Paul Keating under its leadership. You remember?... that guy that once said "it was a recession that we had to have". Australia is now one of the closest countries that has an economy as close to Communism as can possibly be allowed (if anyone studies economics they will know this is true). Labour always and i mean always spends to much, allows to many asylum seekers in (which we are paying for), ohh and i might add that blow outs in unemployment are also common with Labor influence. Additionally i might add that Australian's as a whole are spineless fucks. Get your fucking signs out why don't you and storm parliament house. DO SOMETHING!

David Cassells 02/09/11 04:47 PM Report Abuse

The carbon tax should have be introduced by the Howard Government years ago as a transitional arrangement to their proposed emissions trading system. Climate change will not go away as an issue and the longer we delay the greater will be the cost of adjustment. Get real and give this much needed initiative the bipartisan support it deserves and would have got under Malcolm Turnball's more enlightened leadership

Nick 03/09/11 12:16 PM Report Abuse

Hey Daivid Cssels Have you read all the reports and information out there, Mate AGW/Climate Change is a lie, infact it's the biggest lie second to 911 that has ever been told to the human race in the history of this planet. Get Real and Wake Up.

Frances M 03/09/11 12:50 PM Report Abuse

The Global Warming Hoax exposed.

http://www.middlebury.net/op-ed/global-warming-01.html

Nick 03/09/11 01:49 PM Report Abuse

Thanks Frances for the link, there are still so many other sites like this but still some beleive that climate change will not go away, as if climate change hasn't been happening for millions of years anyway. It's funny how that small ninority of sheep still believe in all this crap and it's funny how they have adapted to the new word Climate Change like good little sheep.

Frances M 03/09/11 02:16 PM Report Abuse

Well Climate Change covers everything from global warming to global cooling, but somehow they are still trying to blame Carbon dioxide for it. Of course they are calling for a tax on 'Carbon' now too, which is much broader than just Carbon dioxide.

http://www.chemicool.com/elements/carbon.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon

"Carbon is the 15th most abundant element in the Earth's crust, and the fourth most abundant element in the universe by mass after hydrogen, helium, and oxygen. It is present in all known life forms, and in the human body carbon is the second most abundant element by mass (about 18.5%) after oxygen.[14] This abundance, together with the unique diversity of organic compounds and their unusual polymer-forming ability at the temperatures commonly encountered on Earth, make this element the chemical basis of all known life."

Mark 12/09/11 09:15 AM Report Abuse

And of course Tony won't bring in a carbon tax now will he , oh hang on he has already said he will , oh but hang on can we believe him , after all in his own words he told us he can't always be believed. Under Rabbit workers will again have to bow to bosses and what they want and we will again have a surplus at the expense of health and education , oh nad lets not forget higher interest rates under the Libs.

Frances M 12/09/11 10:19 AM Report Abuse

Mark go and talk to someone who wants to read what you and your Labor buddies plan. It is on the news right now, that Julia Gillard wants to raid the Future Fund. Unbelievable!

Nick 12/09/11 11:25 AM Report Abuse

Mark go back where you came from and go back under your rock, so what do yo mean? can we trust JULIAR oh yes she never lies. As long as you do your work that you are paid for you won't have to bow to your boss but if you are a bludger then you need to worry, Personaly i never had to worry about any of my bosses. Under a Libral Government you were given lower taxes that you are still enjoying well atleast for a little while longer until your buddies pass a carbon tax and put the final nail in the coffin.

Mark 12/09/11 04:49 PM Report Abuse

Not my Buddies I vote for neither , certainly not under any rock either have no time you see I work hard in my own business , and under either government have gotten very little help. Gillard or Abbott doesn't matter they are both as bad as each other. So Ladies back under your rock , even better get back to work, or your boss might fire you when work place comes back in.

Frances M 12/09/11 05:15 PM Report Abuse

Mark I am an age Pensioner, 70 years old, and I am doing what I should be doing, right now. Trying to ensure that an illegitimate government i.e., Jullia Gillard's does not remain in power. By telling the truth about what Gillard is doing to this country. So I suggest that 'you slither back under the rock from which you came'.

Mark 12/09/11 05:32 PM Report Abuse

Well done Francis you show the ILK that is the Liberal , Slither back under a rock so original , I would have thought that someone who is 70 years old could come up with something better than that , keyboard hero . Illegitimate government you say , remember that the Liberals if it would have gone the other way with independants help would also be illegitamte government. Personally I cannot wait for the Liberals to get into power then we will all see how much Abbott and Gillard are alike. We will still get a carbon tax , we will still get higher fuel prices we will still get higher power prices , and let me guess the Liberals will blame the Labor party for it. Of course they will as they always have. One thing I am very unhappy about is my taxes are still paying for a war built on lies and deciet by your party , will your beloved Tony bring our soldiers home or will he leave them there and blame Labor for them being there. Get over yourself Francis

Nick 12/09/11 05:41 PM Report Abuse

Hey Mark you are dreaming Mate if you want us to believe you are self employed, What Employer in his right mind doesn't want to have the right to sack someone who is not doing their job right. I'm self employed and running my own business and yet I don't have the right to sack someone who is no good and not doing their job so now instead of having one secretary I now have two and paying for two secretary's to talk on their mobiles all day and go on face book, good system aye? And there is nothing I can do about it because one I’ll be reported for unfair dismissal or two I’ll probably be sued for sexual harassment even though there has been none; I have friends that have been down that road before.

Nick 12/09/11 05:49 PM Report Abuse

And mark we don't vote for a person we vote for the party, i do agree though that all parties are the same and i do agree with you on bringing back our troops because they are there on a lie. All Governments are Illegitimate governments But i say better the devil we know so bring back the lib's

Mark 12/09/11 05:50 PM Report Abuse

Nick yes I do work for myself , I have no staff as in my line of work I don't need any , aren't I lucky. Of course I have to prove nothing to you or anybody else, not that I would want to anyway as you mean squat to me. As for your staff WRONG first a verbal warning second a written warning third dismisal it's in the rules take the time to learn them. If you think that your staff have you over a barrel then your the fool and they are laughing. Might be time to go back to being an employee or grow a pair.

Frances M 12/09/11 07:06 PM Report Abuse

Mark you don't know what you are talking about. I have always been a 'swinging voter', I voted for the Libs last time because I saw what Julia Gillard was doing. My priorities are what is going to be good for the country. I saw the wastage by Labor, funny I wonder when and why Labour became Labor? American influence much? You are the kind of fool who is obviously fixated on abusing anyone who disagrees with you. Hmmm kind of reminds me of Parliament where Labor instead of getting on with business, spends its time abusing those in Opposition, and running from the hard questions such as why is Labor covering up for Craig Thompson? The High Court said that the Malaysian solution for the illegal immigrants was illegal, but that didn't stop Julia Gillard she plans on going ahead with her plans despite being told that it would be illegal.

I have a Indian friend who lives in Malaysia, and she spends her life in fear and she and her family are a citizens (second class citizens, because they are not Muslim). Malaysia is definitely not a place for Asylum seekers.

Wendy 12/09/11 08:03 PM Report Abuse

Mark, the biggest issue is that the prime minister was not the elected PM and Labor only came into power with the help of the greens, Abbott was smarter, he didn't fight a h u n g parliament because he knew he'd have no power in senate.

So we have a PM that the majority of people didn't vote for and who has no mandate to impose a tax that the majority of people don't want (if you believe the polls?) and before you use Howard as an example of the GST - he did call an election to allow people to decide. A democracy is based ion what the majority wants.

Frances and Nick, if you are indicative of liberal voters - then I'd rather be voting with you than for labor and their corrupt GetUp group voters, moronic greens or the other pack rat mob that vote for the labor liars.