Tent Embassy protests; Indigenous affairs; Craig Thomson: Tony Abbott interview with Chris Kenny

28/01/12

TRANSCRIPT OF THE HON. TONY ABBOTT MHRINTERVIEW WITH CHRIS KENNY,

SATURDAY AGENDA, SKY NEWS

Subjects: Tent Embassy protests; Indigenous affairs; Craig Thomson.

E&OE……………………….…………………………………………………………………

CHRIS KENNY:

Thanks for joining us, Mr Abbott.

TONY ABBOTT:

Chris, nice to be with you.

CHRIS KENNY:

Tony, we had very ugly scenes in Canberra this week. You were in the middle of that threatened violence on Australia Day. We had the flag burned yesterday. You’ve been verballed and people have tried to blame this on you. We now know of course that this was in part at least triggered by an intervention out of the Prime Minister’s office by one of her staffers. Do you believe that the Prime Minister herself bears any responsibility for this?

TONY ABBOTT:

Well, Chris, let’s not underestimate the seriousness of what happened on Australia Day. We had about 100 people, including our nation’s top leaders, trapped inside a very insecure building and it now seems that this was at least in part triggered by a member of the Prime Minister’s own staff. Now, the Prime Minister can’t spin her way out of this. She owes the nation a full explanation. Exactly what did her staffer say? Exactly to whom did her staffer say it? And who instructed the staffer to say what he did? She really owes us a full explanation. She owes it to everyone in the room. She owes it to the police. She owes it to her own protection detail. This is a very, very serious situation.

CHRIS KENNY:

You are not suggesting at all, are you, that the Prime Minister would’ve been aware of this, that she would’ve sanctioned this?

TONY ABBOTT:

I think Chris she has to give us a full explanation because this is probably the most serious security incident to befall our nation’s leaders for quite a few years and, in part at least, it was triggered by the Prime Minister’s own office. In part, at least, it seems that a member of the Prime Minister’s senior staff was trying to trigger something, something potentially dire, for political advantage.

CHRIS KENNY:

Now, we’ve seen the pictures. You were close with the Prime Minister in that situation. You discussed the situation with her. You would’ve had a sense of how she felt about it. She would’ve felt vulnerable. I thought she appeared calm and generous in the way she dealt with it. Was that your reading of her situation? It surprised her and she acted admirably?

TONY ABBOTT:

Look, I have nothing but praise for the way the Prime Minister and her security detail handled the situation. But the situation should never have arisen. It should never have arisen. Information was fed to the crowd at the Tent Embassy which was false. Trouble was triggered and it seems that someone from the Prime Minister’s office had a very big hand in all of that.

CHRIS KENNY:

Well, yes. Let’s get into that in a bit more detail. Tony Hodges, the media adviser, has resigned over this. The suggestion from the Prime Minister’s office was that he just passed on some information about your location. Now, given what we know about the way you were verballed, people are out there saying you wanted the Embassy torn down and dismantled; surely we are entitled to expect that he may have passed on that information. That apparently has not been denied as yet.

TONY ABBOTT:

Well, that’s right Chris. This is why the Prime minister has to front the cameras and give a full and complete explanation. What did he say precisely; to whom did he say it, precisely; why did he say it, precisely; and what instructions, if any, was he under precisely? I mean, this is too important for the PM and her office to just spin it away. I’m sure there are decent people in the Prime Minister’s office but it looks like a pretty grubby business, I’ve got to say. It really does. It looks like a really poor attempt to turn something to political advantage.

CHRIS KENNY:

Your frontbench colleague Christopher Pyne has called for a police investigation. What possible police matters could be involved here? I wouldn’t have thought the passing on of information could possibly be a criminal offence.

TONY ABBOTT:

Well, plainly Chris, what happened was a serious security breach. I suspect that a number of offences would’ve been committed. I think that when you’ve got a serious security breach involving our nation’s leaders, yes it does have to be fully investigated and obviously what triggered it has to be fully investigated and whether the whole thing was triggered by the Prime Minister’s office, perhaps to gain some kind of political advantage, well, that needs to be fully investigated by the police.

CHRIS KENNY:

Look, it’s going to go down as a very, very sad Australia Day. Australia Day where, I think after a decade of great progress on reconciliation, we’ve seen these racial fissures open up. We saw yesterday on the steps of Parliament House, or on the front of Parliament House, the flag burned and spat on, children involved. Should it be illegal to burn the flag in Australia?

TONY ABBOTT:

Well, strictly speaking Chris, it almost certainly is illegal unless you are burning it in an authorised fireplace...

CHRIS KENNY:

But people have often called for specific legislation to make it illegal to burn our flag.

TONY ABBOTT:

Well, I don’t think it should ever be done. I think the flag should be treated with respect. But the only place in New South Wales where it’s legal to light a fire is a properly constructed fireplace.

CHRIS KENNY:

Ok. Now, what about the broader issue here of reconciliation? Do you fear that reconciliation has been set back this week? No matter how unrepresentative the protesters might be?

TONY ABBOTT:

Well, I think the important thing to acknowledge Chris is that they are hugely unrepresentative of Aboriginal Australia. I think people like Warren Mundine, Noel Pearson, Sue Gordon, Mick Gooda – I don’t always agree with Mick Gooda but he spoke with common sense about all of this today and during the week – I think these are the authentic voices of Aboriginal Australia, not the people doing the wrong thing and carrying on the way they did outside of Parliament House yesterday.

CHRIS KENNY:

Well, this has come only days after the federal Government received the expert panel’s report on the referendum for constitutional recognition of indigenous Australians. Now, I think that was going to be a long shot, given what they’ve recommended anyway, unless the Government pares back what they’ve recommended. Do you think that this, that these incidents this week have significantly retarded the efforts to get this constitutional recognition?

TONY ABBOTT:

I think it would be a great pity if they did. It would be a great pity if they did. Look, let us consider the issue of constitutional recognition on its merits. I have some concerns about the recommendations of the committee but I do think it is important to strive towards constitutional recognition. John Howard promoted this in the 2007 campaign. The former Coalition government actually put a proposal recognising indigenous people in the preamble to a referendum in 1999. I think this is an important cause and let’s persevere with it.

CHRIS KENNY:

Do you think you can sit down with Julia Gillard and come up with a compromise, perhaps with a minimalist approach to get this recognition at the next election?

TONY ABBOTT:

Well, I’m happy to look carefully at the recommendations of the committee and come up with an appropriate response and that’s what we will be doing in the weeks ahead.

But, really, the first thing that the Prime Minister needs to be doing right now is giving us a full explanation of exactly what her staffer was doing yesterday because what happened yesterday is yet another sign of an incompetent and untrustworthy government, a directionless and divided government; a government where there no adult is in charge. That’s the look that we get from this government. Just the last week or so, we’ve had the Andrew Wilkie betrayal, we’ve had the ongoing Craig Thomson saga...

CHRIS KENNY:

I’d like to get you on the Craig Thomson saga. It’s been three years since this Fair Work Australia investigation. We’re still waiting until March before we get a result. Is there anything that could be done to bring this to a head? Most Australians would think that three years is enough to investigate the allegations here.

TONY ABBOTT:

Well, you’re absolutely right. The Wood Royal Commission into the New South Wales police force took less than three years, the Fitzgerald Inquiry into Queensland corruption took just over two years, the Cole Royal Commission into the building industry took just 18 months. This has now gone on for more than three years and, by the time it concludes, if it ever concludes, it’ll be three and a half years. This looks like an institutional go-slow to protect the Gillard Government. The Gillard Government depends absolutely on Craig Thomson’s vote in the parliament. An adverse finding, a criminal charge could well trigger a by-election. It should trigger a by-election in his seat and I think that a lot of people are saying, who is protecting whom here?

CHRIS KENNY:

Well, you were criticised for being Dr No last year and pushing all year to try and force an election because of the precarious parliamentary situation. We now still have that precarious parliamentary situation. In the year ahead, are we going to see a kinder gentler Tony Abbott with more policy or are you still intent on forcing an election whenever you can?

TONY ABBOTT:

I’m intent, Chris, on giving Australia a better government and the job of the Opposition is to expose the flaws in the existing government and to try to become the government itself as soon as possible. So, you’ll see me doing my job this year as you saw me doing my job last year.

CHRIS KENNY:

Well, if you had a two year plan and you weren’t pushing for an early election, people might cut you some slack in terms of policies and costings but given that are virtually demanding an election as soon as you can get it, aren’t you obliged to get more policy out there on the table and to certainly come up with some costings? You are promising enormous budget savings and we know nothing about them.

TONY ABBOTT:

And Chris, we will have all of our policies out there in good time before an election and…

CHRIS KENNY:

Well, if you want an election pretty much whenever you can get it, are you telling me all your policy work is done and is in the top drawer?

TONY ABBOTT:

I’m telling you, Chris, that if the Prime Minister were to call an election tomorrow, we are in good shape to fight it and we are in great shape to give the Australian people clear plans for the future of our country. We want our country, we want our people to have hope, reward and opportunity, and we’ve got the plans to deliver that.

CHRIS KENNY:

The carbon tax comes into force this year. If the Gillard Government’s carbon tax can reduce Australia’s carbon emissions from five per cent on 2000 levels I think it’s based on, what will that do for the planet, for the environment, for the global environment?

TONY ABBOTT:

Well, I think it’s important to get emissions down but far more important than anything else at the moment is an extremely fragile international economic situation…

CHRIS KENNY:

Sure, but what will a five per cent cut in emissions in Australia do for the global environment?

TONY ABBOTT:

I know what you’re driving at Chris. A five per cent...

CHRIS KENNY:

It’s a straight-forward question. Will it help the planet or not?

TONY ABBOTT:

A five per cent cut in Australia alone will do very little. Still, it is important to do our bit.

CHRIS KENNY:

Is it worth the billions of dollars that you want to spend on it?

TONY ABBOTT:

Well, the point I’m trying to make is that now is the worst possible time to introduce the world’s biggest carbon tax. Now, I think we should be prepared to invest intelligently in a better environment and all of the measures that we are proposing under our emissions reduction fund – more trees, better soils, smarter technology, more energy saving – they make sense regardless. They are good things to do. They will also bring our emissions down quite considerably.

CHRIS KENNY:

There is so much to talk about for the year ahead but we are running out of time so I just thought I’d finish up by talking to you about your team. If you are ready for government you want to have your best team in place. Now, I don’t think any fair-minded observer would say that your current frontbench team is the best possible team. When will you update it? Before the election? Will you rule out updating it, upgrading it before the election, having a reshuffle, or will it have to wait until after an election, to see what your best team is?

TONY ABBOTT:

Well, I think it is the best team, Chris...

CHRIS KENNY:

So Arthur Sinodinos is not in your best team?

TONY ABBOTT:

Look, Arthur Sinodinos is the newest member of the federal parliament. He is an outstanding individual. An outstanding individual. He is chairing the Coalition’s deregulation taskforce and this going to be a very important part of our positive policies to take costs off business, small business in particular. Paul Fletcher – I announced it yesterday – is chairing a working group on online safety. Jamie Briggs is the chairman of our waste watch committee and has been doing terrific work exposing the waste in government. I am very pleased that I’ve got young, and not so young, very capable and talented backbenchers who are keeping my frontbenchers on their toes and it is a good team. It is a very good team.

CHRIS KENNY:

Your frontbenchers must know that should you win an election, some of those people would come onto the frontbench. You couldn’t seriously contend that Arthur Sinodinos, for instance, Paul Fletcher, Kelly O’Dwyer, some of these people would be left lamenting on the backbench.

TONY ABBOTT:

And Kelly is Arthur’s deputy on the deregulation taskforce. Look, all of these people are future frontbenchers. There’s no doubt about that, but my existing frontbench is doing a very good job and I expect to take my existing frontbench to the election.

CHRIS KENNY:

Alright. I promise this will be the last topic. Peter Slipper. Elected by his electorate as a Liberal National Party MP, has turned his back on them. Changed sides, become an independent. Unforgivable really, in an electoral sense, in my view. I think the same argument can be made to a lesser degree of the conservative independents Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott. We’ve seen Andrew Wilkie sort of playing games with the Government and being left short. Will you rule out forming a Government with any of these independents? You have criticised their actions. In some ways they speak for themselves. Surely you couldn’t expect your supporters on the conservative side of politics to rely on any of these people to form another precarious minority government.

TONY ABBOTT:

Well, one of the reasons why I think Australia needs an election and needs it now is because minority government is an experiment that’s failed. Clearly, this is the worst government in memory. Worse than Whitlam. Incompetent, untrustworthy, divided, directionless. I think a lot of that is the personality and the character of the people at the top of the government, but I think some of it at least is a function of minority government and that’s why I think we need an election.

CHRIS KENNY:

Alright. Well, thanks for joining us today Tony Abbott.

TONY ABBOTT:

Thanks Chris.